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The little train that could

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The little train that could

Unread postby rogerhb » Fri 17 Mar 2006, 03:38:33

Good news from the UK

The little train that could

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BBC', 'T')he announcement of plans to replace the InterCity 125 with a new fleet of express trains will be welcomed by rail passengers tired of creaky old rolling stock.


It then launches into a history of the Intercity 125 and the almost ran APT.

Refering to the infamous Dr Beeching:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BBC', 'H')e was passionate about the railways being seen as a modern transport provider - one of the reasons he was keen to see the end of steam was that it just so old-fashioned. He wanted a totally electrified network, and part of that was a high speed service between cities.


Suburbs get a mention:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BBC', 'C')ities which had been two hours or more away suddenly became, in effect, suburbs. Property prices saw the impact.


The nearest we'll get to space travel these days:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BBC', 'A')nd now each of those 125s still in service has travelled the equivalent of going to the moon and back three times.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: The little train that could

Unread postby Wildwell » Fri 17 Mar 2006, 07:15:53

"PRIOR INFORMATION NOTICE
Supplies
SECTION I: CONTRACTING AUTHORITY
I.1) NAME, ADDRESSES AND CONTACT POINT(S): Department for Transport
(DfT), Great Minster House, 76 Marsham Street, Attn: Stuart Baker,
UK-London SW1P 4DR. E-mail: stuart.baker@dft.gsi.gov.uk.
Internet address(es):
General address of the contracting authority:
www.dft.gov.uk/railways/franchises.
Further information can be obtained at: As in above-mentioned contact
point(s).
I.2) TYPE OF THE CONTRACTING AUTHORITY AND MAIN ACTIVITY OR ACTIVITIES:
Ministry or any other national or federal authority, including their
regional or local sub-divisions.
Other.
The contracting authority is purchasing on behalf of other contracting
authorities: no.
SECTION II.B: OBJECT OF THE CONTRACT (SUPPLIES OR SERVICES)
II.1) TITLE ATTRIBUTED TO THE CONTRACT BY THE CONTRACTING AUTHORITY:
HST2.
II.2) TYPE OF CONTRACT AND PLACE OF DELIVERY OR OF PERFORMANCE: Supplies.
Main place of performance or of delivery: UK-London.
NUTS code: UKI.
II.3) SHORT DESCRIPTION OF NATURE AND QUANTITY OR VALUE OF SUPPLIES OR
SERVICES: The DfT anticipates commencing the procurement of the new High
Speed Trains 2 (HST2) project with the release of an advert in September
2006.
Following release of the advert the DfT will invite expression of
interest from potential bidders in the form of a response by an
Accreditation Questionnaire that shall be available from the issuance of
the advert.
Those suppliers that are successful in being shortlisted will be invited
to tender.
The current HST stock was introduced between 1976 and 1982 and were
deployed to serve a wide variety of intercity flows. They provide front
line services on high value trains across the Inter-City East Coast,
Midland Mainline and Greater Western Main Line Train Operating Companies.
It is proposed to replace this ageing train fleet with a fleet of "new
generation" HST's.
This will require the specifying, designing, prototyping, testing and
manufacturing of a fleet of new trains in order to replace the current
HST fleet. The estimated capital cost of this replacement programme is
expected to be of the order of 1 000 000 000 GBP for the trains with
further expenditure envisaged for the depot and related works. Funding
arrangements are yet to be considered.
The trains will continue to be used on intercity passenger services and
are integral to the long-term future of a number of franchises.
II.4) COMMON PROCUREMENT VOCABULARY (CPV): 35200000.
II.5) SCHEDULED DATE FOR START OF AWARD PROCEDURES:
II.6) CONTRACT COVERED BY THE GOVERNMENT PROCUREMENT AGREEMENT (GPA):
Yes.
II.7) ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: The aim of this project is to:
Deliver increased carrying capacity per train: We forecast increased
demand on interurban services, so we would want HST2 to maximise
passenger carrying capacity. The three main options for this are to
increase the length, height or width of trains.
Deliver a fast, reliable journey time: As per capita GDP increases, so
does the value of time. HST2 will need to match or better competitor
modes in terms of reliable end-to-end journey times. Options for
improving reliability include increasing physical robustness, reducing
the complexity of the design, maximising the use of proven technologies
and subsystems, and proper testing of a prototype train.
Meet customer requirements: We forecast an ageing and more affluent
population and expect them to be more demanding in terms of comfort,
ambience and on-train facilities. HST2 must be capable of accommodating
these requirements. This is particularly important because the high
revenues from inter-urban services permit cross-subsidy of services for
which there is a sound economic case, but which have low revenue yields.
Improve safety: In a more affluent society, the value of life also
increases. HST2 must also be as safe as we can reasonably make it. The
safety objective should cover both passengers and railway employees
(whether working on train or track), and it should focus particularly on
reducing the risk of fatal accidents and include consideration of
collision/derailment survival and evacuation characteristics. HST2 should
seek to design-in improvements to personal security.
Deliver an environmentally sustainable solution: Fuel prices are expected
to rise and environmental concerns to increase. HST2 should be as
fuel-efficient as possible, with minimum generation of noise and
emissions. We also need to ensure that we factor in the risk that some
combination of fuel-price increase and environmental concern renders
diesel operation non-viable during the lifetime of HST2.
Emissions should
be assessed at whole societal cost, rather than at point of use.
Minimise cost: The Business Case must be predicated on the whole-life,
whole-system cost. This subsumes (a) the up-front cost of trains,
maintenance facilities and any upgrades required to the infrastructure,
(b) the ongoing cost of maintaining and operating the trains and
infrastructure, and (c) financing cost.
Offer flexibility of deployment: A clear understanding will need to be
made of the markets HST2 is intended to serve. Nobody can forecast with
total confidence demand levels or passenger expectations. Assessments of
how to optimise the carrying capacity of lines may also change over time.
It is therefore desirable that the HST2 design should be capable of
operating as many different types of inter-urban service as possible, eg
non-stop or 20-stop London-Edinburgh services, on WCML as well as ECML,
and possibly on longer-distance commuter routes. The ability to cascade
the trains with minimal modification cost (e.g. by exploiting modular
design) also has a value.
SECTION III: LEGAL, ECONOMIC, FINANCIAL AND TECHNICAL INFORMATION
III.2) CONDITIONS FOR PARTICIPATION
III.2.1) Reserved contracts: No.
SECTION VI: COMPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
VI.1) CONTRACT RELATED TO A PROJECT AND/OR PROGRAMME FINANCED BY
COMMUNITY FUNDS: No.
VI.3) INFORMATION ON GENERAL REGULATORY FRAMEWORK: Relevant governmental
Internet sites where information can be obtained
Tax legislation:
Environmental protection legislation:
Employment protection and working conditions:
VI.4) DATE OF DISPATCH OF THIS NOTICE: 31.1.2006."
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Re: The little train that could

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Sat 18 Mar 2006, 22:42:56

Bring back steam! (here)
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Re: The little train that could

Unread postby rogerhb » Sun 19 Mar 2006, 18:47:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', 'W')e forecast an ageing and more affluent population and expect them to be more demanding in terms of comfort, ambience and on-train facilities. HST2 must be capable of accommodating these requirements.


So cattle-trucks out of the question then?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', 'W')e also need to ensure that we factor in the risk that some combination of fuel-price increase and environmental concern renders diesel operation non-viable during the lifetime of HST2


Somebody has been doing their homework.
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Re: The little train that could

Unread postby Wildwell » Thu 23 Mar 2006, 07:28:26

We're still well behind Germany and Switzerland. The UK system is on par with the French, only because the French system is a bit ropey off the main lines.

My week around Switzerland was an eye opener, mostly run on renewable power and some nuclear, watch those 14 coach trains hauled over fierce gradients at speeds up to 125mph, and mega freight trains over the Alpine passes. I guess they are lucky enough to have plenty of running water.
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Re: The little train that could

Unread postby Doly » Thu 23 Mar 2006, 08:30:01

In my opinion, the UK train system is definitely behind the Spanish one. I'm not sure about the proportion of electric trains, but the service is definitely better on almost any aspect you want to consider.
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Re: The little train that could

Unread postby gwmss15 » Fri 24 Mar 2006, 05:45:27

Well i have used these trains before they look ok but are very tired on the inside and often have air cond and engine failures on route leaving you stuck in the middle of no where. However these are the Intercity 125 units refered to as the XPT in australia they have been a failure to some extent too slow for the melbourne sydney brisbane line 2200km long but 36 Hours they rarely get to 200kph more like 80 kph they might be nicer in the uk where they where built maybe the UK supply the NSW govt with a few of the new replacements to these trains

the UK system is way ahead of the australia system with 22 different gauges in Use and a system of mostly single track with extreme congestion in places

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Re: The little train that could

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Fri 24 Mar 2006, 19:03:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gwmss15', 'H')owever these are the Intercity 125 units refered to as the XPT in australia they have been a failure to some extent too slow for the melbourne sydney brisbane line 2200km long but 36 Hours they rarely get to 200kph more like 80 kph they might be nicer in the uk where they where built maybe the UK supply the NSW govt with a few of the new replacements to these trains.


LOL, the trains are capable of at least 160 km/h. Unfortunately, the tracks they run on are good for only 115 km/h at best, although the stretch between Wagga Wagga (yes, that really is the name of the place) and Albury is a section where the XPT can really show what it's capable of - I've been going along in one, and watching the cars on the Olympic Way being overtaken by the train as though they were standing still.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he UK system is way ahead of the australia system with 22 different gauges in Use and a system of mostly single track with extreme congestion in places


The "break-of-guage" problem has been somewhat ameliorated, since the upgrading of selected sections of track. There are really only two guages in extensive use, now: Standard Guage (4 foot 8 1/2 inches or 1435 mm) and narrow guage (3 foot 6 inches or 1067 mm). Broad-guage is either used less and less or the routes are getting abandoned (a mistake if you ask me).

All Australian capital cities are now connected by Standard guage track, although the majority of that track is hampered by alignments that were seens as bottle-necks even in steam-days. The problem is that the majority of those "mainlines" were built as temporary extensions to temporary extensions and they were never designed to carry that amount of stuff they are compelled to, today.

They need urgent investment in rail - which would cost less than road anyway - but the Road Lobby is so powerful in Australia that both sides of politics would rather send the place utterly broke than actually confront the problems associated with having road haulage as the primary means of land-transport.

The consistent Government Subsidy of (about) 900 times more money going to road than to rail (and Australian Rail was required to PAY the road taxes, too!) is a legacy we'll rue dearly when oil becomes so expensive the roads will be the biggest White Elephants - and billions of dollars wasted.
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