[mididoctors]

forget secondary and tertiary consumption for the mo and just calculate based on your petrol, domestic gas and electricity use.

are you powering down?

if so by how much?

where are you winning or losing?

remember to try and calculate by energy (kwh therms etc) rather than cost which is variable

Boris
London

[killJOY]

My vote is misleading: I had to vote "0%" because we've been "powered-down" for years and can't get much lower before going non-electric.

Solar is too complicated for me, and just keeps us dependent on electricity.

When/if the grid becomes intermittent, we're well prepared to go without, as illustrated in my account here:

http://www.survivingpeakoil.com/article ... _should_be

[MyOtherID]

I've been forcibly powered down. My car was stolen yesterday. I'm toying with the idea of not replacing it.

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MyOtherID', 'I')'ve been forcibly powered down. My car was stolen yesterday. I'm toying with the idea of not replacing it.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mididoctors', 't')ry going without any heating! probably almost fatal in some northern/central US states

[Bolinbrooke]

Well 20% is an estimate, but based on a few actions, such as not driving the car at all on Sundays, riding a push bike to the shops to buy milk, bread and the daily paper and purchasing a motor bike to commute to work our petrol expenses has dropped and is approaching half that before my awareness of PO. Hosehold electricity uses is a little tougher, but I have noticed just turing off lights when you are not in a room has dropped our power bill from $120AU per quater to $100AU per quater. I know we can conserve and reduce more too, along the lines of a solar hot water system.

I'm glad that we are temperate enough where I live in Australia we dont need heating in winter!

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mididoctors', 't')ry going without any heating! probably almost fatal in some northern/central US states

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')This is a very pervasive, but totaly bogus idea. There are lots of people here in Northern Montana who overwinter in unheated RV's. All you need is shelter to stop the wind, good clothes, and warm bedding. People sleep in tents on the side of Everest and don't freeze. For the vast majority of people, central heating is totaly a luxury item, not a necessity.

[Pops]

About 4 years ago my partner and I decided to close our business and start working from our homes – saved a 25 mile a day commute then and I’ve been working from home since.

We moved from California to Missouri a year and a half ago and though I can’t tell you kWs, I can tell you we were in one of the least expensive electrical markets in the country and our power bill was still around $300 a month (all electric) out there and now it’s maybe a combined average of $80 here (electric/propane/wood) which includes running the well for us and the stock when the pond is dry - which it has been.

We heat mostly with wood and rarely use the central heat - I’m wearing long johns and a sweatshirt now and my fingers are pretty cold. We are tightening the house and will be installing a tankless water heater soon so hopefully the bill will come down more and my fingers will work a little better.


On second thought, we do drive maybe 4 miles a day to feed heifers for one of the neighbors, so I guess I have a commute after all .

[Aaron]

Keep in mind that unless you abandon all modern inventions you are not powering down as much as you think you are.

Much of the energy required by any device is spent before you ever see it.

Like hybrids...

If we calculate the energy required to manufacture the car, including the energy used by all the people who make these cars, you will find that your "eco-friendly" hybrid saves little or no energy.

More than half the energy budget for these devices was spent creating & delivering it to you.

The same applies for almost everything.

Right down to those little plastic thingys on your shoelaces.

The hidden subsidy oil lends to manufacturing, transportation etc... will sweep away any potential savings as oil prices rise.

And even if you could save energy by "powering down", all you accomplish is to lower relative energy costs, which helps to finance the expanding energy budget of others.

[dooberheim]

The reason I power down is more to get used to the idea. I know there is a lot of energy tied up in manufactured items. The items I've been getting since becoming peak aware are things that should last, and hopefully if things are bad, I will be able to use them even in the absence of reliable electricity or transport fuels. It's good practice, in other words.

DK

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'K')eep in mind that unless you abandon all modern inventions you are not powering down as much as you think you are.

[mididoctors]

on reflection more anecdotal categories is perhaps better and would be interesting as a front page poll perhaps?

Boris
London

[Aaron]

Good idea...

You guys crank out some specific ideas for a poll like this for the front page.

When we reach critical mass I'll run the poll.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', ' ')stuff...

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'G')ood idea...

You guys crank out some specific ideas for a poll like this for the front page.

When we reach critical mass I'll run the poll.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')h and those shoelace thingies are called aglets.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'A') bunch of good and funny stuff including:

"Saves you money no doubt... which you dutifully put right back into the economy through your expanded ability to purchase other stuff.

[backstop]

Pops -

your promotion of the Ghandian aspiration to voluntary material poverty strikes me spot on but also as singularly "Un-American".

Are you sure its legal in your state ?

And with regard to working in longjohns and a T-shirt in winter, surely a jersey & perhaps also trousers would be modest and justifiable additions to your attire ?

Midi-doctors -

Writing as one who became Aglet-free a couple of decades ago (leather bootlaces work better !) I'm rather in Killjoys position as regards the poll -

yes, with what most would regard as privation I could cut further, but I see no point in doing so
until people wake up to the need to campaign for a global treaty of the atmospheric commons,
whereby Jeavons can be permanently capped as regards global fossil energy usage.

regards,

Backstop

[nocar]

Well, I just have to boast. I have known about PO since 1997, although more along the lines of just generally peak production and a following oil crisis, not so much a general crisis of society.

I found out in the 1960s when I could compare living in the Wash DC USA (car dependent) and Stockholm Sweden (lots of public transport) that the car transport system (compared to rail public transport) does nothing to improve living conditions for people or even transport convenience. Therefore, I have refrained from car owning, together with my family, Hubby and three kids, two of which had moved out already 10 years ago.

So I have not been able to cut down on gasoline because I have not bought gasoline since the early 1970s.

But we used to buy 3.5 cubic meters of heating oil a year. That corresponds to about 35,000 kWh per year, and also used about 1,200 kWh of electricity a year.

About 8 years ago we instead installed a heat pump system using the ground "heat". Now we use a total of 13,000 kWh electricity per year, and no fossil fuel.

Although I think per person the savings are smaller since we were three persons in the household then but now are two empty nesters.

Hubby and me buy very little. Mainly because we do not care to. Our savings are constantly increasing, though. I suppose the bank uses the money to fund all sorts of enterprises that use oil and destroy the earth in every way.

I guess you are right that says that you just cannot beat the system.

But I am very proud to say that two of my three children (age 23-34 yrs) do not own a car (indeed, they have not even cared to obtain a driver's licence).

nocar