[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')size=200]Democrats have no idea what demons they are unleashing[/size]
by Newt Gingrich, 8/18/2018

A few weeks ago, a member of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) wrote an article for Vox explaining the movement’s goals – to end capitalism and radically change America.

In normal times, the declarations of a fringe party and ideology in America would not merit much attention. However, these are not normal times. A new Gallup poll shows that 57 percent of Democrats have a favorable view of socialism – while only 47 percent view capitalism positively.

This pattern has been building for a while. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont took socialism mainstream in the party during the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries. Since then, Democratic Party candidates have been increasingly attaching themselves to the ideology.

[Cog]

The DSA is closely associated with antifa and use them to assualt people while they. pretend ignorance of their actions. The predecessor to antifa was the German communist party pre-hitler.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')he DSA is closely associated with antifa and use them to assualt people while they. pretend ignorance of their actions. The predecessor to antifa was the German communist party pre-hitler.

[Cog]

I watch live streams of protests with an eye as to who shows up at them. The dsa will be carrying their poster boards with their organization name displayed. Antifa is always with them in the pack somewhere.

German communist flag bears a strong resemblance to the antifa flag. Both the dsa and antifa share common goals. The destruction of capitalism and the promotion. Of socialism. See occupy wall street people. Same folks.

[Outcast_Searcher]

If the D's want to get me (and lots of people in the middle, I suspect) to vote GOP for POTUS in 2020, even if it's Trump, having a DSP candidate running on a clear DSP economic platform would be an excellent way to get that done.

Just because socialism manages not to be an economic disaster in the Nordic countries doesn't mean it will be an improvement for the US.

[Cog]

MSNBC panel warns that embracing Ocasio Cortez is going to result in Trump's reelection. She and her merry band of socialists have already robbed New York of a new Amazon headquarters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWCOr3MVuU

[lpetrich]

No, what they did was refuse to give big tax breaks to the company. Amazon is entirely free to build a new headquarters in the New York City area, but Amazon would have to do so without receiving giant tax breaks.

Lovers of capitalism ought to applaud that decision, because it involves rejection of handouts and crony capitalism.

[Cog]

Well Democrats are good at one thing. Destroying 25,000 jobs for one. But I'm sure a red state will be happy to have them. Why Amazon would ever want to go to a high tax and regulatory state like New York boggles the mind. So the outflow of people from New York state will continue. Unfortunately, the people that leave ending up voting for the same failed policies that caused them to leave to begin with.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lpetrich', 'w')hat they did was refuse to give big tax breaks to the company.

[lpetrich]

That's not how it turned out. The company was offered those tax breaks as part of the deal: How the New York Amazon Deal Fell Apart, How Amazon blew its chance in New York - CNN

I think that those who oppose handouts and crony capitalism ought to oppose deals like that. Or are businesses the only entities with the right to receive handouts?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lpetrich', 'T')hat's not how it turned out. The company was offered those tax breaks as part of the deal: How the New York Amazon Deal Fell Apart, How Amazon blew its chance in New York - CNN

I think that those who oppose handouts and crony capitalism ought to oppose deals like that. Or are businesses the only entities with the right to receive handouts?

[KaiserJeep]

Ben Stein gets it:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;It depends on education, we have a society in which there are an awful lot of people who have no idea that Stalin, Hitler, Mao Zedong all came to power promising the same kind of things that Miss Ocasio-Cortez is promising and it led to mass murder, it led to dictatorship, it led to genocide. These promises are old promises and they invariably lead to bad things. The promise of just saying to people, do what you can within the law to make your life better and your family’s life better, that system works extremely well. Capitalism is a system that allows people to make something of themselves instead of oppressing other people. It’s an incredibly good system. Making money is one of the most harmless things there is to do in the whole world, and that is what our society is about. It’s not about ordering people around, putting them in concentration camps, What do you do if a person is a richer or poorer person? What do you do? Do you take him away? Do you shoot him? Well, that’s what the communists tried, it didn’t work out very well for them. At the end of the day, we wound up with Russia as one of the most unequal societies there has ever been in the world. In Vietnam, they were promised all these things, and we wound up with one of the most corrupt countries in the world. In Venezuela, I don’t know how corrupt it is but people say it’s one of the most corrupt countries in the world, we don’t wind up with the promises people make."

[lpetrich]

That Ben Stein quote is nothing but utopian twaddle. If he invokes Communist countries, I can invoke antebellum-South slave-plantation owners. They liked to grow tobacco and cotton, and crops like that are called cash crops for a reason. Some of them may have considered capitalism undignified, but they were very willing capitalists. Slavery is based on property rights, and Abraham Lincoln was a big fat thief for depriving slaveowners of their slaves.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'L')et's pretend companies like Amazon don't pay a hell of a lot of taxes.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ike what? Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,000,000,000 in profit for 2018 That's Federal taxes, but I would not be surprised if Amazon is equally good at weaseling out of paying state and local axes.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lpetrich', 'T')hat Ben Stein quote is nothing but utopian twaddle. If he invokes Communist countries, I can invoke antebellum-South slave-plantation owners. They liked to grow tobacco and cotton, and crops like that are called cash crops for a reason. Some of them may have considered capitalism undignified, but they were very willing capitalists. Slavery is based on property rights, and Abraham Lincoln was a big fat thief for depriving slaveowners of their slaves.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'L')et's pretend companies like Amazon don't pay a hell of a lot of taxes.

[Zarquon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lpetrich', 'T')hat's not how it turned out. The company was offered those tax breaks as part of the deal: How the New York Amazon Deal Fell Apart, How Amazon blew its chance in New York - CNN

I think that those who oppose handouts and crony capitalism ought to oppose deals like that. Or are businesses the only entities with the right to receive handouts?

[lpetrich]

This ought to give pause for those who claim to love the free market. Which is better to win at?

Producing superior goods and services?

or

Having superior skill in wiggling out of paying taxes and complying with regulations? Complete with being willing to finance politicians' careers, if necessary.

[KaiserJeep]

Nobody has a civic duty to pay taxes, when alternatives exist. Government tax incentives play a role in stimulating and locating businesses. As long as no corruption exists, the media can shine a light on such deals, but has no role in urging action. The taxpayers decide who they vote for, and the legislators decide how they incent business and otherwise promote the economy.

[Zarquon]

No company that pays taxes can compete with Amazon, which does not. Therefore there is no "free market". It's the first thing a corporate behemoth like that wants to get rid of, if it existed in the first place.

Another outcome is that since the corporations which make up the lion's share of the global economy pay no or very little taxes, capital gains taxes are steadily being reduced if they exist at all, the burden must be carried more and more by the wage earners.

And if you point out the obvious that means you're either a Putin lover, don't understand the first thing about economics or are clinically insane. Probably all three. But that mom-and-pop-store capitalism (which never mattered much anyway), tempered by democracy, has devolved into a plutocracy - nope. My calendar still says it's 1950.

[Cog]

Corporations don't exist as a tax resource to be plundered by socialists, although that is the common thinking by communists around the world. Corporations exist to return value to the stockholders. To the extent they can avoid taxes, they are doing exactly what investors want them to do.