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The Ministry of Truth in operation

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The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby nero » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 01:37:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NYTimes', 'A')nna K. Nelson, a foreign policy historian at American University, said she and other researchers had been puzzled in recent years by the number of documents pulled from the archives with little explanation.
"I think this is a travesty," said Dr. Nelson, who said she believed that some reclassified material was in her files. "I think the public is being deprived of what history is really about: facts."
The document removals have not been reported to the Information Security Oversight Office, as the law has required for formal reclassifications since 2003.
The explanation, said Mr. Leonard, the head of the office, is a bureaucratic quirk. The intelligence agencies take the position that the reclassified documents were never properly declassified, even though they were reviewed, stamped "declassified," freely given to researchers and even published, he said.
Thus, the agencies argue, the documents remain classified — and pulling them from public access is not really reclassification.

The NY Times
History is being rewritten or "rectified" as we speak.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby gego » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 02:05:21

George Orwell's, 1984.

Rewriting history in action as he described.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby send_oil_please » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 04:26:52

I honestly think of it sort of like Orwell's 1984 Meets The Keystone Cops.
And it is pretty typical.. like a bad "Ground Hogs Day" scene but with different characters and plots each time (episodes I, II, ...XXVII... and I think Woody Alan plays Alan Greenspan this time, in place of Bill Murry's news reporter part this time).

Same charades as those played before, same comic/tragic out comes in the end. The Lendendary-In-Their-Minds-only Wave Riders Like Greenspan and Bernanke are just the latest victims of their own egos and fantastic imaginations...
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby J-Rod » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 08:58:58

I took the time to re-read 1984 several months ago, in light of recent events. Man, was he ahead of his time. Or maybe not, maybe he just saw a natural pattern in events within his own time.

The nature of the documents being classified are kinda spooky. I mean State Department foreign relation history? This is just nuts...
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby gego » Wed 22 Feb 2006, 00:27:23

George Orwell also wrote the "Animal Farm".
The animals revolted and threw out the farmer. The dogs and pigs took over the management of the farm and lived in the farmers old house. The other animals did all the work.

They had written some sort of Bill of Rights on the barn wall, but as time progressed, the working animals kept noticing that what was written on the barn wall was not quite the same as it was the previous day.
Truly George Orwell did understand some of what would come to pass. I think he deserves to be described as a visionary.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby rogerhb » Wed 22 Feb 2006, 00:48:25

Rumsfeld's Roadmap to Propaganda
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ecret Pentagon "roadmap" calls for "boundaries" between "information operations" abroad and at home but provides no actual limits as long as US doesn't "target" Americans
National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 177
For more information contact: Kristin Adair / Thomas Blanton
202 994 7000
Posted - January 26, 2006
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby mortifiedpenguin » Fri 09 Jun 2006, 03:58:08

Somehow I just don't think the US Government is trying to rewrite history. So numerous documents are being pulled. So what? It is impossible to change history like in 1984, with the world we have today. Washington still crossed the Delaware. Lewis and Clark still made their journey across North America. Alexander Graham Bell still invented the telephone. Etc. You just cannot change history now. It is impossible.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby Doly » Fri 09 Jun 2006, 04:15:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mortifiedpenguin', 'I')t is impossible to change history like in 1984, with the world we have today. Washington still crossed the Delaware. Lewis and Clark still made their journey across North America. Alexander Graham Bell still invented the telephone. Etc. You just cannot change history now. It is impossible.

You are very naive if you say that. Just look at any old history textbook (something written in the 50s will be enough), compare with a modern book, and tell me afterwards if history can be rewritten. The first thing you will notice is that the facts considered important in one book and the other are significantly different.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby mortifiedpenguin » Fri 09 Jun 2006, 12:32:57

I actually did do what you said, and found an old history textbook in my closet. The "Family Encyclopedia of American History." Written in 1960, but close enough. I read about several major events in American history, including the events from my last post (minus Alexander Graham Bell, he's actually from Scotland.)

Then I looked through my massive US History textbook for those very same events. While the wording was quite different, and some of the facts were indeed different like you said, the two histories were still basically the same. Washington still crossed the Delaware, Lewis and Clark still traveled across North America, we still defeated Great Britain in the American Revolution and the War of 1812, etc. So yes, I still firmly believe that history cannot be changed and that the world of 1984 could never happen today.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby Raxozanne » Fri 09 Jun 2006, 15:03:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mortifiedpenguin', ' ')I still firmly believe that history cannot be changed and that the world of 1984 could never happen today.

Yeah it would take so much energy to control everyone to that extent that diminishing returns would make the whole system collapse. Especially if fighting a war at the same time.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby Zardoz » Fri 09 Jun 2006, 15:36:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mortifiedpenguin', '.')..I still firmly believe that history cannot be changed and that the world of 1984 could never happen today

The Japanese have successfully revised history for decades. Several generations grew up with no idea of what actually happened in World War II. Many young tourists have come to Hawaii and been stunned to learn about the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. Some claimed they had never even heard of it.

The Japanese are still trying to cover up their atrocities in China, Korea, the Phillipines, Southeast Asia, and the Pacific islands. What they've done with their WWII record is truly Orwellian.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby gego » Sun 11 Jun 2006, 23:20:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mortifiedpenguin', 'I') actually did do what you said, and found an old history textbook in my closet. The "Family Encyclopedia of American History." Written in 1960, but close enough. I read about several major events in American history, including the events from my last post (minus Alexander Graham Bell, he's actually from Scotland.)
Then I looked through my massive US History textbook for those very same events. While the wording was quite different, and some of the facts were indeed different like you said, the two histories were still basically the same. Washington still crossed the Delaware, Lewis and Clark still traveled across North America, we still defeated Great Britain in the American Revolution and the War of 1812, etc. So yes, I still firmly believe that history cannot be changed and that the world of 1984 could never happen today.

Well, obviously you have a limited awareness resulting from the programming introduced into what you consider your capable brain.

I lived in the South in the 1950's and clearly the view of the US Civil War, circa 1865 was different as written in the victor's history books and as related from the old folks, and their decendents still able to tell the tale.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby rwwff » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 02:02:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'T')he Japanese have successfully revised history for decades. Several generations grew up with no idea of what actually happened in World War II. Many young tourists have come to Hawaii and been stunned to learn about the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. Some claimed they had never even heard of it.
The Japanese are still trying to cover up their atrocities in China, Korea, the Phillipines, Southeast Asia, and the Pacific islands. What they've done with their WWII record is truly Orwellian

Choosing to ignore parts of history that one finds distasteful is not the same as altering history. Those Japanese, should they wish, can do exactly as your examples did, travel to Hawaii and see Pearl Harbor. They can also type Pearl Harbor into a search engine on the net and get more info than they would ever wish to read.

What burns people in China, Korea, and some in the US is that Japan doesn't go out of its way to dwell upon its previous crimes and self flagillate itself for the entertainment of various Chinese and American critics. They want Japan to do as Germany does. The Japanese decided that was stupid.
No one is censoring Japanese requests for information regarding Pearl Harbor, December 1941.

And honestly, there could also be this false politeness thing going on with apparent reaction to seeing first hand Pearl Harbor stuff. You act shocked and empathic, then go back to your hotel room, order some sushi and think to self, "well that was boring." Note to self, tomorrow, more beach, more beer; less tour guides.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby nero » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 13:43:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MortifiedPenguin', 'T')hen I looked through my massive US History textbook for those very same events. While the wording was quite different, and some of the facts were indeed different like you said, the two histories were still basically the same. Washington still crossed the Delaware, Lewis and Clark still traveled across North America, we still defeated Great Britain in the American Revolution and the War of 1812, etc. So yes, I still firmly believe that history cannot be changed and that the world of 1984 could never happen today.

Well there is truth (ie facts) and then there is history ie our collective interpretation of the known facts)

Taking your examples:
Washington crossed the Deleware, sure but did Washington chop down that cherry tree? History on that event has certainly changed since I was in grade school.
Lewis and Clark crossed the continent sure but Sagacawea is now a much more important character in the story.
America defeated Great Britian in the american revolution: Have the French ever received their due credit on that one?

America defeated Great Britian in the war of 1812. Funny how people here north of the border feel that Great Britian won that one.
But these aren't examples of deliberate 1984ish rewriting of history. I'm just pointing out how changeable history is.
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Re: The Ministry of Truth in operation

Unread postby PraireRanger » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 03:30:13

How many lights!
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