[dhymers]

Hi all.

An introductory email of sorts. I live in and work Tucson Arizona and I've been aware of peak oil for probably about three years, me and my wife have big plans for our suburban house (currently a small PV system, water harvesting and a fledgling vegetable garden)
I eventually plan to convert a small car/truck to electric, but that is a ways off yet. (I don't want to start a flame war between the hydrogen folks and the EV folks, not what I came here for more solutions the better)

The point of this post is to bring attention to "Peak Depression"
I'm sure many people are aware that all the changes we are to undergo in resource shortages and climate change are going to affect our mental health quite a bit, and the systems to treat that change are going to come under great strain.
But myself personally right now I feel HUGE anxiety, not having the funds available to put into action the plans which I hope would provide a cushion and become more sustainable on the scale I want.
This anxiety is compounded by a lot of the people around me not having even the slightest clue, or they're old enough that they may shrug it off and simply state "I'll be dead" that really sends me off the deep end.

I don't have children yet, and I look at couples the same age as me who do, and they have next to no planning skills, no passion to find out whats going on to arm themselves with the knowledge its going to take to get through the next 30 years raising your kid.
This all gets a bit much
My plan is not to have a kid until I'm in the position where I can bring it into the world with a cushion between my family and the effects of peak oil. It maybe years before I can accomplish that, but isn't it the smart thing to do ?

I find myself actively trying to avoid watching movies like "Escape from Suburbia", "Who killed the electric car" "The 11th hour" or youtube videos by "peak moments" or anything with Mike Ruppert.... (but I convince myself I need to watch, and do.)
because they send me into a deep depression and make me pretty angry.
Even though my wife shares my views, sometimes its tough when I get so angry at the world.

Uh... anyway.
Anybody else feel these effects, doing all they can but feeling outstripped and outdone ?

[Newfie]

Well, I for one feel greatly depressed by the human condition. I'm at a very different stage of life than you are and have spent my whole career in what I thought were "green" or "eco friendly" jobs.

But it doesn't matter, we are collectively too short sighted to make rational decisions.

I DO have kids, and I feel bad for them.

A primary mandate that my wife and I both received growing up was "Leave it better than you found it." That is impossible. Even the best of us are only building sand castles that some big, stupid, over fed, stup will knock over as he careens through life in his H2.

But here is a wee dram of advice, grab a book called "Sea-Steading: A Life of Hope and Freedom on the Last Viable Frontier." It ain't what you think, trust me on that one. I just read it last night. I found it uplifting.

And be careful about the advice you get on this board about kids. There are some out there who really, really advocate NOT having kids at all. I don't agree with that and, having given the topic way too much thought, can see no reason to not have kids. You get very little vote in how they turn out, good times or bad. Basically the only vote you get is to have them or not. Then you try to do your best and give the a good start and that is about that. No guarantees, too much is in the genes.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhymers', '
')My plan is not to have a kid until I'm in the position where I can bring it into the world with a cushion between my family and the effects of peak oil. It maybe years before I can accomplish that, but isn't it the smart thing to do ?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhymers', '
')I find myself actively trying to avoid watching movies like "Escape from Suburbia", "Who killed the electric car" "The 11th hour" or youtube videos by "peak moments" or anything with Mike Ruppert.... (but I convince myself I need to watch, and do.)
because they send me into a deep depression and make me pretty angry.

[dhymers]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')hy should you watch them? There's no need to if you understand this issue. --snip-- Knowledge of our situation isn't bad for our health, worrying about it is, and doesn't accomplish anything unless it causes us to take action.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhymers', '
')The challenge of being human is maintaining generational knowledge and skills so we grow more knowledgable as a race, a strong family structure is not an accident, it is a formula for survival which should extend to us protecting out surroundings.

[AirlinePilot]

Welcome to the Suck! Seriously welcome to the jungle that is PO. You'll find a lot of help here, at least to understand some things.

What your undergoing is not uncommon. I still find myself stuck in between old thought patterns and what i know I should be doing. I wouldnt call
it depression though here. More like an underlying malaise to daily life. Its going to be a slow crash i think, interspersed with some real dicey landmines which we wont negotiate well as a species, or individual nations.

I like to say we are afflicted with knowledge. Its not so much depression as it is a feeling of getting overwhelmed. Dont sweat it, embrace it, and see new opportunities in the decline! Thats what Im attempting to do, meanwhile grasping at what may be coming as each new year unfolds. My kids are nearing all grwon up and Ive passed along the concerns about where i think we are going. I do not envy folks with very young kids, I truly dont.

We are in for a roller coaster ride and the first part of the ride hasn't really begun yet. We're only half way up the first big incline.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhymers', '
')if the ones of us that acknowledge this don't pass it on to younger generations then we really are f**ked.

[Gorm]

Children is a bonus, they can work. You will need them. This requiers that you raise them, and not let the TV do that for you.

Get kids now, It will not be easier in the future I guess

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', 'C')hildren is a bonus, they can work.

[Gorm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', 'C')hildren is a bonus, they can work.

[dhymers]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhymers', '
')We need more people

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', '
') slaves, allies, offspring, pension, family, safetynet whatever you want to call them.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhymers', ' ')I agree we need less people and fast, but that's not realistically going to happen...


Change doesn't happen through INACTION, it happens through active EXAMPLE.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhymers', '
')And the model WORKS, think about Catholicism, Devout Judaism, both faiths grow through the "go forth and multiply" statement, why should my faith of conservation and minimum impact be any different ?

[dhymers]

I'm all for widespread voluntary childlessness. (just not me !) I really hate people !

Maybe I should have altered the statement post quote, my doctrine would be: "go forth and multiply in harmony with nature"
basically I was contrasting my idea with that of popular religion.

Promoting voluntary human extinction is a non-starter, it will get nowhere, as an appealing an idea as it is to those who realize the numbers, it will be outstripped by forced human extinction due to resource shortage and resource wars. (or forced population control in FEMA camps.... depending on who you believe
A much better idea is to promote generational impact reduction, each generation should be challenged to reduce its impact by 50% of the last one.

For every child you don't have, an orthodox jew or catholic is having 2, can you be sure they have the right teachings to ensure they don't promote rampant consumerism and trashing the world ? no. (I'm just using those as an example ! I'm not trying to start a religious war)

All I'm saying is if you have your own offspring you can ensure that they are at least given an attempted education in balanced living with nature, I realize 100% that the ideas clash, but I'm not going to sit by and watch other mindless idiots have kids and not tell them the reality! (my kids whole existence will be geared this way, where your food comes from, where your energy comes from, the impacts, the dangers, the history and the future etc etc)

And please don't just say my kids will rebel. At least I'm willing to have a crack at it and not just sit there on the sidelines and point out the bleeding obvious, with no kids.

Heck, maybe I'll even out the balance and kill somebody else's kids

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhymers', '
')A much better idea is to promote generational impact reduction, each generation should be challenged to reduce its impact by 50% of the last one.

[dhymers]

uh, mos, I just read in another post you referring to your daughter.

wtf. ? who the hell is a hypocrite now ?
how can you espouse voluntary childlessness POST childbirth ?
So in fact we're not dissimilar at all.
I'd prefer to have kids and nobody else, just like you ! isn't that funny.

[dhymers]

yup I completely agree

I stated earlier on I'm not having more than 2 of my own kids and I'd adopt a third, as we all know there are plenty of parent-less kids who are perfectly adoptable.

Yeah, the 50% less impact idea brings us dangerously close to omg ... socialism, ensuring everyone has the same life style.
Again, completely unenforceable.

So basically we agree we're headed for the shitbox and the only way population control will be brought into effect is by forces bigger than governments, naturally. Sub 3-billion numbers I believe will be seen before the year 2090, unless we can figure out a way to colonize space quickly.
"why are we spending money finding out if there is water on the moon's south pole when we're starving down here"
Precisely the point !!!! to get to mars and anywhere beyond we need a moon base ergo we need water there !
anyway....

Do you think reindeer would get depressed enough to stop breeding ?
no, maybe that's the advantage we have ? .... hrm.