So often I see on here people saying "we need leaders to do such and such" to solve our problems and by "leaders" they seem to mean "the government." Why do people think we need the government to do virtually everything to change our society/solve our problems, and, perhaps more importantly, why do people believe the government will ever be interested in changing the status quo in a way which benefits the mass of people?
Just curious about opinions on this popular need for "leaders."
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"We need leaders"
Re: "We need leaders"
by wisconsin_cur » Sun 15 Feb 2009, 16:46:44
Looking for a leader to make the hard choices operates at two levels.
1) The only way to save things as they are requires a top down solution and since people fear change they are looking for a leader to fix things.
2) It also operates in such a way as to free people from the responsibility of actively working to prepare their lives for a world that is different. People want leaders because they fear responsibility.
There may be more but those are the first two to come to mind.
1) The only way to save things as they are requires a top down solution and since people fear change they are looking for a leader to fix things.
2) It also operates in such a way as to free people from the responsibility of actively working to prepare their lives for a world that is different. People want leaders because they fear responsibility.
There may be more but those are the first two to come to mind.
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: "We need leaders"
by WildRose » Sun 15 Feb 2009, 16:58:16
Hi, Ludi.
I guess the flip side to having government leaders would be individuals sharing skills and ideas with neighbors and family, leading by example.
Could it be that the latter seems a slower, more gradual process while the former may appear to be a quicker fix, with results materializing faster? I'm not saying that this is necessarily so but that it could be the assumption.
I guess the flip side to having government leaders would be individuals sharing skills and ideas with neighbors and family, leading by example.
Could it be that the latter seems a slower, more gradual process while the former may appear to be a quicker fix, with results materializing faster? I'm not saying that this is necessarily so but that it could be the assumption.
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Re: "We need leaders"
by gt1370a » Sun 15 Feb 2009, 17:05:24
The problem is, we have politicians who spend all their time buying votes to get re-elected, i.e. they just make promises and tell people what they want to hear. True leadership would say something like, "You can't spend money you don't have, we're not going to wreck our currency and government in an effort to prop up failed institutions, this will be a painful process but we just have to work through it and try to come out better on the other side." I think a lot of people generally have the sense that this is what needs to happen and wish there was someone in Washington with the balls to say it, that's why there is a desire for "leadership." No matter what individuals or families or communities do, if our currency and government collapse like the Soviet Union, we're all in a real mess.
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Re: "We need leaders"
by Ludi » Sun 15 Feb 2009, 17:17:26
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', ' ')No matter what individuals or families or communities do, if our currency and government collapse like the Soviet Union, we're all in a real mess.
You seem to be saying we are helpless without a wise and benevolent government in the leadership role. Is that your belief?
- Ludi
Re: "We need leaders"
by oswald622 » Sun 15 Feb 2009, 17:37:38
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou seem to be saying we are helpless without a wise and benevolent government in the leadership role. Is that your belief?
the means to effect policy changes lie at the top: the bureaucracy, the police, the organs of education and propaganda, the public purse. the biggest and most powerful tool-bag available is the government - the problem is that it is owned by the elite interests.
bottom-up change requires masses of engaged citizens working toward a common goal. the organizational challenges are formidable on their own, but the greater necessity is a revolution of the mind. this cannot come to pass while most people still cling to the current model of what 'normal' life is supposed to be - the 'easy motoring utopia', as kunstler would put it.
the only viable options, as i see them, are either a 'natural' collapse and subsequent/concurrent revolution; or the rise of a skilled reformer who might stem the tide of entropy for a while.
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Re: "We need leaders"
by Ludi » Sun 15 Feb 2009, 17:42:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oswald622', '
')the only viable options, as i see them, are either a 'natural' collapse and subsequent/concurrent revolution; or the rise of a skilled reformer who might stem the tide of entropy for a while.
')the only viable options, as i see them, are either a 'natural' collapse and subsequent/concurrent revolution; or the rise of a skilled reformer who might stem the tide of entropy for a while.
Which of those options are you planning for?
- Ludi
Re: "We need leaders"
by Quinny » Sun 15 Feb 2009, 18:02:35
I was a politician and on a local and regional level was very successful with the electorate. I wasn't as successful with fellow politicians because I wasn't interested in climbing the greasy pole.
The point is that my local electorate (despite the local press) appreciated the truth and continually supported honesty (even against the trend) for over 14 years. I eventually gave up because I moved away from the area.
In the current situation 'honest' politicians are hung out to dry by the media as soon as they become a threat to the status quo. I believe this is changing as people have lost faith in the 'system' (including the press) and are becoming more open to the truth.
Leaders are needed - this doesn't necessarily mean they have to earn more, consume more or even speak more than anyone else, they just need to lead!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'T')he problem is, we have politicians who spend all their time buying votes to get re-elected, i.e. they just make promises and tell people what they want to hear. True leadership would say something like, "You can't spend money you don't have, we're not going to wreck our currency and government in an effort to prop up failed institutions, this will be a painful process but we just have to work through it and try to come out better on the other side." I think a lot of people generally have the sense that this is what needs to happen and wish there was someone in Washington with the balls to say it, that's why there is a desire for "leadership." No matter what individuals or families or communities do, if our currency and government collapse like the Soviet Union, we're all in a real mess.
The point is that my local electorate (despite the local press) appreciated the truth and continually supported honesty (even against the trend) for over 14 years. I eventually gave up because I moved away from the area.
In the current situation 'honest' politicians are hung out to dry by the media as soon as they become a threat to the status quo. I believe this is changing as people have lost faith in the 'system' (including the press) and are becoming more open to the truth.
Leaders are needed - this doesn't necessarily mean they have to earn more, consume more or even speak more than anyone else, they just need to lead!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'T')he problem is, we have politicians who spend all their time buying votes to get re-elected, i.e. they just make promises and tell people what they want to hear. True leadership would say something like, "You can't spend money you don't have, we're not going to wreck our currency and government in an effort to prop up failed institutions, this will be a painful process but we just have to work through it and try to come out better on the other side." I think a lot of people generally have the sense that this is what needs to happen and wish there was someone in Washington with the balls to say it, that's why there is a desire for "leadership." No matter what individuals or families or communities do, if our currency and government collapse like the Soviet Union, we're all in a real mess.
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