[antspice]

Its all interesting to read and discuss about what we can do but when i log back all the way back, into myself off the internet away from my imaginary point of view positioned over an imaginary window in space it all gets back to myself. What am i realisticly going to do? Shaking the world awake is probably out of reach, my own family perhaps? what good will that do, i have litle confidence they would very last if/when PO hits (over time or instantly) and impacts ouer individual lives somehow.
What if i were to help the people here? It wont help myself and i have litle confidence that 'they' will do much better (in my opinion). We (the forumers) appear to be very divided in ouer opinions and plans, slightly organized at best.
Do we realize whats going and how ouer lives might change, realize as in that we take actual action instead of attempting to generate this illusion? Knowing and realizing are two different things. By my own definition realizing is that you completely understand a subject and can act accordingly. Knowing on the other hand is just having your knowledge about a subject in the back of your head, knowing as in not doing anything with it. In my opinion a lot of us are stuck inbetween the two, with a select few on the realizing end.
The difference between the two phases of ouer knowledge of a subject is like almost everything quite relative, the choices we make are derived from what we have realized and not what we just know. Do we realize whats going on, everything in its absolute completeness?

[Heineken]

I think that the meanings of "knowing" and "realizing" are too similar to support the distinction you are attempting to draw here; they're almost interchangeable. Perhaps "knowing" versus "acting" would work better.

[Barbara]

Not quite, heineken. My husband knows perfectly (as you may guess ) but didn't realize yet.
And I'm afraid he'll never realize.

[AmericanEmpire]

I know and realize that my ass is most likely toast when it all goes down. I hold no illusions about surviving and I'm not even sure I want to survive.

[coyote]

Realizing, as Heinlein put it, is knowing something 'all the way to the back of your head.' Knowing it all the way. Smokers know that smoking is bad for them; but they haven't yet made the knowledge real. When they do, they quit.

As antspice implied, there are different levels to realization. And it can happen all at once, or slowly, as knowledge sinks in. My realization of Peak Oil happened suddenly... and yet it has deepened considerably over the past several months.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('antspice', '
')The difference between the two phases of ouer knowledge of a subject is like almost everything quite relative, the choices we make are derived from what we have realized and not what we just know. Do we realize whats going on, everything in its absolute completeness?

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'N')ot quite, heineken. My husband knows perfectly (as you may guess ) but didn't realize yet.
And I'm afraid he'll never realize.

[crapattack]

Have to agree with Heinekin here, realizing is becoming aware of something and is one of the first steps to knowing. We generally think of knowing something as having, yes, a depth and breath of understanding the topic. Realizing is not the same thing as manifesting. Acting upon knowledge converts the relatively inert state of knowing into and active state of doing. Saying "knowing and realizing" is not really saying more than 'knowing' as the 2 things are so close to the same thing as to be practically the same.

Yes, isn't language fun?

[Jellric]

I think the question is a good one and goes deeper than mere semantics. It is something that has been on my mind as well. There is indeed a difference between "book knowledge" and realization. Using the example coyote gave- a smoker knows intellectually that smoking will shorten his life. But since this (for him) is only "head knowledge", the negative consequences are distant and unreal. Then one day he is diagnosed with lung cancer. THAT is realization. He could have had that realization before that day arrived, but he didn't.

Do we realize whats going on, everything in its absolute completeness?

No. You shift from book knowledge to realization in degrees. For many, PO is little more than an intellectual exercise. For others, preparations are well underway. The event is real to them.

Just look at the size of the "Planning for the Future" forum relative to the others.

Is Peak Oil real to you?

[antspice]

i'm afraid PO people, like the ignorant conservative pagans (for a lack of better words) dont want to face the possibility of a harsh future, not just harsh in terms of closing grocery stores and buss lines / gass pumps but also reinstitution of the draft and other decicions (war for oil?) from ouer governments. i refuse to believe governments will wildy accept a population that ignores their interests and focusses on them own interests instead. A self sufficient community sounds appealing to individual people but to a government it isnt of very much use, certainly if it is fighting a war against eastern "terrorism" and/or nuclear weapons and/or radical governments (Hamas might turn even worse).
I dont have the confidence that PO'rs might make a significant dent that will put their governments attention to them in specific, though.

my way of thinking has led me to wander what the **** awareness is...

Regards,
Sleep tight everyone.

[Heineken]

I have a feeling that English isn't your first language, antspice, and that's probably part of the difficulty here. However, I'm sure your English is infinitely better than my (whatever your first language is)!

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', 'H')ave to agree with Heinekin here, realizing is becoming aware of something and is one of the first steps to knowing. We generally think of knowing something as having, yes, a depth and breath of understanding the topic. Realizing is not the same thing as manifesting. Acting upon knowledge converts the relatively inert state of knowing into and active state of doing. Saying "knowing and realizing" is not really saying more than 'knowing' as the 2 things are so close to the same thing as to be practically the same.

Yes, isn't language fun?

[crapattack]

Heinekin wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') share antspice's frustration over knowing certain things in a world that is largely unresponsive to that knowledge. I guess that's the gist of his message here. For me, that frustration has gradually evolved into a sense of hopelessness and doomerism. An analogy I have is this. Imagine you are transported back in time to November 21, 1963. You materialize inside an apartment in NYC's Lower East Side. The apartment has, in addition to a collection of dreary furniture, a telephone. You've got 24 hours to avert the assassination of President Kennedy. You start making frantic phone calls---to the NYPD, to the White House, to the UN. Imagine how that scenario would develop.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '.')..there are different levels to realization. And it can happen all at once, or slowly, as knowledge sinks in. My realization of Peak Oil happened suddenly... and yet it has deepened considerably over the past several months...

...we're still not sure exactly what's going to happen, or when, or how much of it...

[crapattack]

The way I look at is when we get to our island farm we'll be living a happier and healthier life with less stress, being more physically active, and more emotionally present. Our life will be better, and if the 30 storey steamroller catches up with us and squishes us along with everyone else at least we will have died happier than we are now.