[threadbear]

Or...there must be 50 ways to leave your lover. I'm resurrecting an old discussion here, because it's an important issue. Is peak oil better met alone, or with a partner? If so, what kind of partner? Who gets the thumbs up and who gets the thumbs down?

[LadyRuby]

As in life, having a partner I think is generally better. I don't know why an energy crisis/financial collapse would change that. In a nutshell:

If you have a good relationship, nurture it.
If you have a bad one, make it better or get out (although easier said than done, especially if children involved).

[Windmills]

I think there are myriad reasons why having not only a partner, but probably a small tribe are best.

I feel very fortunate that my girlfriend and I see eye to eye on Peak Oil. It makes the financial planning much easier. We both see the need to plan for a difficult future and make sacrifices now in order to do so. It would be hard to make those financial sacrifices with a partner that didn't believe in PO, or took a cornucopian/techno-messiah viewpoint.

Having a good person by your side that you can trust and with whom you can pool your resources is a great asset. I think one of the major issues that most peakers face in planning for the future is obviouslymoney. With another trusty person at your side, some of that financial weight is lifted by sharing expenses.

[MicroHydro]

Suppose you were a christian german who had married a jewish german before 1933. How would you feel about your friends and close relatives who supported the nazi party's rise to power? They enabled forces that posed a direct threat to the right of you and your partner to exist. That is the way I felt in the US the morning of 3 November 2004 - ironically my partner's birthday - the worst birthday ever.

So dumped the baggage, disowned all the Bush supporters in my address book, including my neocon, chickenhawk, dittohead brother. They are dead to me now. I don't even care whether they dieoff or not, and won't even know. It felt great, and freed up my time and energies to focus on my loving relatives, my real friends and true allies.

Whatever your relationship baggage is, dump it. It is a hard road ahead down the oil depletion and economic slope. The last thing any of us needs is to carry the weight of the brain-dead on our backs.

PS: fascists, neocons, and fundies don't even waste your time flaming me. I hit the wonderful forum IGNORE button on you long ago and won't even see your toxic posts.

[MicroHydro]

double post removed

[RonMN]

My only advice on relationships...i WONT give any advice!

Only YOU can know what's really going on in that relationship...anything anybody else says (myself included) is pure speculation!

Best of luck!

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'S')uppose you were a christian german who had married a jewish german before 1933. How would you feel about your friends and close relatives who supported the nazi party's rise to power? They enabled forces that posed a direct threat to the right of you and your partner to exist. That is the way I felt in the US the morning of 3 November 2004 - ironically my partner's birthday - the worst birthday ever.

[KingM]

I don't think there is any "recent times" about it. I would have said that a few years ago. Now I would venture that he's the worst president in the history of the United States.

As a caveat, I voted for Bush in 2000 and it's one of the most regretted decisions of my life.

Re: relationships. If you otherwise see eye to eye, I would never terminate a relationship based on P.O. No matter your position on same, there's a damn good chance that you're wrong. We're all just guessing here.

And if you're right, by the time it matters it will be obvious, I would think. At that point they will look up to you for leadership and provide important support during potentially difficult times.

[sameu]

k
maybe it's my getting older or my PO-awareness, I'm not sure
but
I preferred the chicks to be rather skinny, not extremely, but you now, model like
now the ones with a little more fat suddenly seem much more attractive to me
I'm not kidding you

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')align=left] I do feel a little better now, as the majority of the public clearly now see that the emperor truly is naked. [/align]

[oowolf]

I lost my mate a few years ago and miss her desperately. And fear she will be forever irreplaceable. There's not many aging ecohippies around these days. I get so sick of encountering the truly clueless- I mean if you haven't figured anything out by the time you're 40 or 50..........

[ubercynicmeister]

An old friend of mine - who recently died of Spinal Cancer, as a secondary cancer to Prostate Cancer - made the best sense when he said "You will make the most important decision in your life (who to get partnered / married to) when you have the least experience"

He was married for 40 years, was very religious, and had a great family of three sons. I note the contrast with those who say they aren't religious and have divorce after divorce. That's something ELSE we won't be able to afford to do after Peak Oil. If survival of the community takes precedence over personal inclination (as would seem to be the case) Post Peak Oil, then we'll just have to Say Good Bye To All Of That.

There's one bit of advice for those who have gotten their "foot in the door", relationship-wise, but want to know if they should take things further. Luciano Pavarotti said it (he was been married & divorced more often than I've had hot breakfasts): "How can you tell if they are 'the one'? Simple - are you comfortable with the silences?"

This is one of the most profound bits of advice I've ever heard, and is worth taking some note of. What was meant is - in every interaction with one's fellow humans (whether you are a person's lover or not), there will come times of a lag in conversation.

If you feel comfortable enough to allow the lags, the silences long or short, then you'll get along very well with that other person. If you bump into the silence with that almost frantic desperation to "fill up the gaps" (you know very well what I mean), then you won't get along with the other person (sit-coms, especially American ones make great use of this exact scenario). I'm not saying anything against conversation - there's nothing more pleasurable than having a yak to one's best friends, and it doesn't matter who you are, either. The conversation topic will most times be utterly irrelevant to those participating. More often than not, it's the way a person puts stuff that really matters. This is why people who have "nothing in common" at all can get along so darn well. It's also why people who "ought" to be together cannot get anything going no matter how they try.

I realise I'm being vague to the point of sending everyone to sleep, but, well...Peak Oil or no Peak Oil, take Luciano's advice...and ask yourself are you comfortable with the silences in your relationship(s), because there may well be an awful lot of things that require silence, Post Peak oil...or did you imagine that the "whole show" will be accompanied by a 5.1 channel surround-sound Dolby audio track replete with full symphony orchestra?

Studying the postings of some people here, it would appear that the 5.1 channel surround-sound is exactly what they expect.

[kfmccart]

if you really care about someone i dont think it would matter if it makes it more difficult to survive after the crash.

are you actully going to leave them, instead of fighting to keep you both alive?

luckily i am single so i dont have these deep questions though...hahaaaa

also about the election nonsense
DOSNT ANYONE GET IT, it dosnt matter if bush or kerry got elected
The republicans and democrats are diffrent flavors of the same bull crap
things wouldnt be much diffrent with kerry
stop crying like babies and take solace that soon politics wont matter

[HarvKilljoy]

Over the past year, I've had the worst experience of my marriage thus far, and had my discovery of peak oil theory added on top of that. My wife and I had been arguing over some important-at-that-time topic, and she'd attempted suicide, not to kill herself, but to garner sympathy...

That woke me up to how she deals with things. It also reminded me that in the long run, I've got to do what I've got to do- I'd made decisions since then to get a vasectomy, to make extreme efforts to be prepared for the worst-case sudden-crash scenario, and to start learning sustainable lifestyles.

Since then... I've been arrested and jailed for three days on domestic assault charges (which have subsequently been dropped), and spent the better part of the summer separated from my wife and my children. During those days in jail, and the time alone at my home, I had the opportunity to reflect upon the situation as a whole.

I came to the conclusion that if my family isn't there to protect, what's the use of me making all of those preparations? It was a terrible blow to my self-confidence. I'd thought that making the choices I did, and taking the actions I did, were the best ones in light of the information I had, and the lack of acceptance on her part...

I'd tried to show my wife the information, tried to get her to accept that things aren't going to be hunky-dory and business-as-usual forever and ever amen. Nothing but denial from her. Or worse, she says it's for real, but she just keeps on going on as if it's not.

We're working things out- mostly how to get back to "normal"- whatever that is. Me, I still see peak oil and the ramifications thereof as far more important than trying to get "back to normal"- but I don't want another conflict with my wife, a repeat of this summer's events. I want to work things out- find a way to get off the grid, get sustainable, be ok with how we live.

We shall see if we get there or not- ultimately, I've got to survive- I'm not one who would hope that when things go bad, FEMA will save me. Ha. I'd rather just be off in the woods on my own, fine, thank you. I feel confident that I can survive pretty much anything that comes my way, alone- but I've got a wife and two kids to be concerned about.

It bothers me greatly to think that when the shit hits the fan, my wife will be in such complete denial or in utter shock that she'll effectively be worthless as a person to work through these tough times with.

This begs the question- do I get out of this marriage, however difficult that may be, and attempt to work on this whole peak oil thing on my own, or with other like-minded persons, -or- do I just hang on to this relationship to the bitter end, i.e. when gas is $20 a gallon, food's being rationed (if available at all), FEMA's rounding up those of us who're more military-minded... never to be seen or heard from again?

Or have I just made the logical fallacy of the false dilema? Either-or? I see a whole slew of options available and I'm flexible enough (I THINK!) to be able to work things out. Time will tell...

HARV

[threadbear]

HKilljoy, If your wife had you jailed for three days, and you truly did nothing to deserve it, the answer seems obvious. Is she able to support herself?

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HarvKilljoy', '.').. My wife and I had been arguing over some important-at-that-time topic, and she'd attempted suicide, not to kill herself, but to garner sympathy...

...since then... I've been arrested and jailed for three days on domestic assault charges (which have subsequently been dropped), and spent the better part of the summer separated from my wife and my children.

It bothers me greatly to think that when the shit hits the fan, my wife will be in such complete denial or in utter shock that she'll effectively be worthless as a person to work through these tough times with.

This begs the question- do I get out of this marriage, however difficult that may be, and attempt to work on this whole peak oil thing on my own, or with other like-minded persons, -or- do I just hang on to this relationship to the bitter end, i.e. when gas is $20 a gallon, food's being rationed (if available at all), FEMA's rounding up those of us who're more military-minded... never to be seen or heard from again?

HARV

[Liamj]

Just on the seperation thing, doing whats best for the kid/s makes sense on many levels, and I wanted to relate benefits of seperation-in-place. I know of a few ex-couples (1 set married) who have stopped sleeping together & relating as lovers, but who continue to cohabit and parent as before. In one case, a new partner (for her) has moved in too, & the children appear almost completely unfazed.
Of course wont work for everyone, a revolving door would v.prob be disasterous etc etc, but it does work for some. Taking out the sex and the 'will you love me forever' stress can make life a whole lot simpler, without the kids losing either parent. (incidentally, think has been common in upper classes for centuries).

[ubercynicmeister]

Just be glad you're not like the poor guy, whose case was related in Warren Farrell's Book, "The Myth Of Male Power" (pages 234, 235 2001 edition):

When Jennifer Eidenschink and her husband, Steven, separated, she bought a gun. She invited Steven over to remove [some of his things] and then, whikle his hands were occupied, she shot him 5 times.

Steve an athlete, suffered irreparable nerve damage, and a permanent limp that would prevent him [playing sports]. Jennifer said he had abused her. But because Steven had survived, he was able to present evidence that made her acknowledge she was lying. The court [convicted her of murder and] gave her counselling and two and a half weeks of voluntary service (Community service).

When Steven recovered, he moved back in with Jennifer. Oh, yes the state did order Jennifer to pay Steve $22,000 for the medical bills he had incurred. But Jennifer wasn't working, so Steve paid, instead.

...

Good luck to all husbands. I hope you survive what your wife is now legally allowed to do to you: murder you.

[killJOY]

Harv said, $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'd')o I just hang on to this relationship to the bitter end

[mgibbons19]

People are wierd though. While it does suck for Harv, it also is instructive for our not-yet-hooked-up fellow posters. Ppl are wierd, choose carefully. Especially since soon after, there are little people involved too.