[aswerfawf]

consider the following idea: there are people out there who are incredibly disatisfied with some aspect of their lives on varying levels of intensity. they know something isnt working, but arent really quite sure what exactly this thing is. but this feeling wont go away. these people deal with it in verious ways, some drown themselves in consumption addictions, others in beer, while some sink into depression. in the back of their minds they recall a scene of tranquility.. sitting quietly on a rocking chair on a summer porch sipping lemonade, waving and chatting occasionaly with passing neighbors. cooled off by a gentle breeze, listening to the rustle of the oak trees that shade the front sidewalk... secretly in their heart of hearts they yearn for this way of life to manifest itself in their daily reality, this or some similar idyllic scene, perhaps on country farm or village tavern. in a way theyve pinpointed their disatisfaction, there is something about our present way of life that just doesnt work for them. something which different ways of organizing society did provide for its citizens.

then along pops 'peak oil', surfing the web they pop onto one of the many websites about the insuing doom. they read with intense eagerness. at last, they dont have to toil at the office for long, this world of computers, stock exchanges and cocacola is coming to an end. the small town and farming village is coming back! but what is the nature of this eagerness? it has triggered in some for the first time a strong sense of initative. there is a choice peak oil faces us all with: change your way of life or die. whereas previously it would have been impossible to even consider abandoning the suburban office worker consumption model, now it becomes impossible to remain within it. peak oil merely validates an inner spark of hope which has been there all along. it gives the opportunity for this hope to nurture, prosper, and eventually give rise to such selfempowerment and self initiative that this hope manifests itself in material reality as a radical lifestyle change. the hope made real.

what i want to suggest to you all reading this, is that peak oil is like the feather that dumbo the elephant used to convince himself he could fly. the feather may or may not have have real magical powers (or in the case of peak oil real economic implications), the point is that he could really fly and we can really change our lives to live a more pleasent lifestlye and make our desires real. dont sell yourself short.

[Heineken]

I'm not sure what your point is---that POers are attracted to PO because it offers them the possibility of a different, and perhaps better, life, or because it gives them a chance for Schadenfreude (joy in watching others suffer).

I'll admit that I find a silver lining in PO (the idea that the earth may survive and heal itself, purged of man). But that's more of an afterthought, not the essence of my attraction to PO theory. What attracts me is what I see as the simple truth of it: oil demand will exceed oil supply, and this event holds many unpredictable consequences that are fascinating---and frightening---to consider.

[Gary]

Well, I think that this is very creative. I have not until now seen Dumbo the Flying Elephant used as a metaphor for Peak Oilists, nor have I seen Peak Oil likened to Dumbo's "Magic Feather." Wonderful!

Is Peak Oil a crutch?

Is Peak Oil a real crutch or a fake one?

If Peak Oil is real, can seeing Peak Oil as a crutch be in itself a crutch?

If Peak Oil is not real, can seeing Peak Oil as a crutch still be a crutch?

Who has crutches? Who does not have crutches?

Still, I really like the "Dumbo and the Magic Feather" metaphor.

Many people in my life (myself included) do seem to be tied to the comforts provided by our EnergyBinge Economy. No one I know is interested in Peak Oil because they are itching to escape the boredom and ennui of modern life. It could happen, though.

I know a number of people who have long been interested in the environment, resource depletion, overpopulation, and permaculture or urban farming. They were into this stuff before becoming aware of "Peak Oil" and will be into it with or without Peak Oil.

For some folks, Peak Oil awareness is less a crutch than it is a "Key to the Doorway of Greater Awareness." Beware, once one enters The Door, there is no going back....!

Have you entered The Door? Have you become a Flying Elephant? Is there a Magic Feather? Have you tried a Cosmic Rubber Crutch?

Sorry, just feeling silly, I guess......

[Guest]

Crutch or magic feather? Fact is, elephants can't fly.

I would argue fossil fuels are the magic feather. They allow us to fly, literally as well as metaphorically. Without the magic feather, the elephant will return to Earth with a thud.

So much for analogy.

Whether you are dissatisfied with life or not, oil depletion is a geological fact. Sure there are doomers who can't wait to see the demise of Man. But the concern of most is that we have the easy life now, and this may be about to end. The prospect of a return to back-breaking physical work does not appeal to me!

[FairMaiden]

Since I am VERY happy with my life, I would have to disagree. People who drown out life with drugs or alcohol do so bc they personal (selfish) issues - not bc they give a hoot about society as a whole. PO would be a terrible, horrible shock that I'd prefer didn't have to happen (just maybe alternatives will save us, tho I'm not betting on it). Some of us realize the lifestyle will live could not be sustained and is kind of selfish when you realize that not even half of our population could live the way we do given our finite resources.

Its not a crutch at all - its a scary possibility. Doomers think we'll be looting and fighting for resources...while some others believe we could band together and rediscover a simpler way of life.

I like my life and don't prefer either scenerio. But I won't put my head in the sand...PO'ers tend to information seekers (look at the information folks post on this site). Yet we all interpret the data differently.

[Eotyrant]

Crutch or not is irrelvant. Without first addressing the validity of the argument this objection is merely ad hominem. If the argument is false, then the crutch seems reasonable and the 'dumbo/ magic feather analogy holds'. However, if the argument is true then individual's reasons for believing it are irrelevant.

Additionally, it isn't 'a mere handful' who are dissatisfied with society, but rather a significant majority - Suicide Statistics

[KingM]

I would say that this thread and others like it--PO as Religion, for example--bring up an interesting detail of the Peak Oil movement. It strikes me as more than a little suspicious that the people most likely to be doomers on this board are also most likely to think that humans and modern culture are evil in and of themselves. Like Kunstler, they think that not only is society doomed, but that it should be doomed.

Which makes me wonder. Is this doomerism something they alone are enlightened enough to see, or is it created and nurtured by their dislike of everything that the oil culture represents.

There are roughly 4,300 people who have registered on the PO board, or maybe 1/250,000 of the roughly 1 billion people that the NY Times says will be online by the end of the year. Obviously not all of those 4,300 are doomers, but being generous, let's say that ten times that number around the world believe that PO will destroy civilization and lead to a die-off. No, let's really bump the numbers and make it sixty times. That makes 250,000 PO doomers.

Now let's leave PO out of the equation for a moment and make it any randomly selected end of the world movement. If you heard that 250,000, or 1 in 24,000 people on earth thought some cause or other was going to end the world, while the other 6 billion ignored the issue, how much credence would you give to this particular belief system?

[Eotyrant]

Well, to play the numbers game is just argumentum ad numerum, so I'll ignore that. However, I think the issue is one of strength and degree of concern.

Concern that peak oil could, in the next twenty or so thirty years, result in a downturn of our living standards and (combined with other factors, such as America and Japan's debt burdens) result in a recession/depression seems reasonable. To extrapolate this to 'quick, into the storm shelter!' is not; even if this scenario comes to pass, is is too far off to know and too early to worry.

Nevertheless, simply trusting that new energy sources will come along makes you little better than Russell's chicken; it is unjustified induction. So whilst panic is absurd, so is inaction.

Indeed, being as I am only 19, a happy, non-apocalyptic future is far preferable.

[threadbear]

Whether it's peak oil, peak water, peak fish, Peak Oil attracts people who are sick of a society that places quantity over quality, and THAT is a very healthy attitude. There is an over-arching eco-reality here that is bigger than the sum of it's parts.

The psychological pain that peak oilers feel is the grief of people who realize they have been or are complicit in matricide; Mother Nature being the victim.

If you insist on comparisons, between peak oil activism and drug use, I suggest that "acknowledgment that there is a problem" is more like the first step in a twelve step program to quit gluttonous consumption. Peak oil interest is about finding solution to the problem, not the problem, itself.

A great book on this is James Hillman and Micheal Ventura's book, "We've had a hundred years of psychotherapy and the world's getting worse."

From a site that discusses this great book:

In 1992 two books came out that began to unsettle the community of modern psychotherapy practitioners and their clients: James Hillman and Michael Ventura's We've Had 100 Years of Psychotherapy and the World's Getting Worse and Theodore Roszak's The Voice of the Earth. Both of these books called into question the modern practice of psychotherapy in the face of the continued decline of the natural world. Both authors assert that the suffering an individual experiences is linked to more than their personal story, it is connected to the suffering of the earth and the nurturing systems that sustain us.

http://www.naturalchoice.net/articles/ecologic.htm

[turmoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eotyrant', 'I')ndeed, being as I am only 19, a happy, non-apocalyptic future is far preferable.

[AmericanEmpire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'l')ike my life and don't prefer either scenerio.

[aswerfawf]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eotyrant', 'C')rutch or not is irrelvant. Without first addressing the validity of the argument this objection is merely ad hominem. If the argument is false, then the crutch seems reasonable and the 'dumbo/ magic feather analogy holds'. However, if the argument is true then individual's reasons for believing it are irrelevant.

Additionally, it isn't 'a mere handful' who are dissatisfied with society, but rather a significant majority - Suicide Statistics

[aswerfawf]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'W')hether it's peak oil, peak water, peak fish, Peak Oil attracts people who are sick of a society that places quantity over quality, and THAT is a very healthy attitude. There is an over-arching eco-reality here that is bigger than the sum of it's parts.

The psychological pain that peak oilers feel is the grief of people who realize they have been or are complicit in matricide; Mother Nature being the victim.

[aswerfawf]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turmoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eotyrant', 'I')ndeed, being as I am only 19, a happy, non-apocalyptic future is far preferable.

[Eotyrant]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aswerfawf', 'w')hat objection? please dont missinterpret me, i am not moralizing and i certainly wasnt attacking any one. i find it interesting to deconstruct peoples motives. surely some people are freaked out by peak oil for its own sake (such as FairMaiden), but for some the issue of peak oil is irrelevant to their underlying motives and as i said merely validates already existing desires.

yes, i agree that a majority of folks are dissatisfied with their way of life, this is exactly the sort of person i am speaking to and about with my posting. the point i am making is that the issue of peak oil isnt necessary for people to follow their dreams, its ok to follow your dreams just because you want to.

[keehah]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')peak oil merely validates an inner spark of hope which has been there all along"

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aswerfawf', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turmoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eotyrant', 'I')ndeed, being as I am only 19, a happy, non-apocalyptic future is far preferable.

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aswerfawf', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turmoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eotyrant', 'I')ndeed, being as I am only 19, a happy, non-apocalyptic future is far preferable.

[KingM]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')What I want to know is why 95% of young people today are so oblivious of or uninterested in the fast-deteriorating state of their world. They face potentially life-ending crises in their lifetimes, but they have little political energy and would rather while away the hours with Britney Spears and once in a while vote for the latest GOP clone/clown.

[Pops]

I like it!

Crutch isn’t quite the right description however; key to an imagined, but elusive door would be better. After all, a crutch can only take you so far and if you become too dependent, it just becomes more baggage, whereas once you turn a key and unlock that door your new direction is up to you.


My previous life was quite satisfying as far as it went but it did demand lots of time and money for upkeep and that was beginning to be tedious. Though not a doomer at heart or misanthrope (I hope), I had long thought about a way of life more about my goals than my client’s. As well, I had become increasingly concerned regarding macro and hence my own micro economic situation and, of course, the festering religious wars, but PO was the feather that broke the elephant’s back as it were.

There are examples all over this board of others like me. The thing that surprises me is the number that seems to have made no change whatsoever aside from just adding PO to the list of things to worry about.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aswerfawf', '
') the point i am making is that the issue of peak oil isnt necessary for people to follow their dreams, its ok to follow your dreams just because you want to.