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Peak Oil and Cognitive Dissonance Theory

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Peak Oil and Cognitive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby donshan » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 21:47:08

As I read the books, literature, and posts here on Peak Oil, I am struck by the sharp ( and sometimes angry ) differences between viewpoints of people discussing the same facts. I see cognitive dissonance in action here. I have used cognitive dissonance theory for many decades to help me understand opinions of others that I disagree with, and to understand their reactions to my opinions. At the end of this post I will put a link to some background on Cognitive dissonance theory which was first articulated by Leon Festinger in the 1950s.

In one of its forms, cognitive dissonance predicts that the greater that an individual invests his money, reputation, and effort into something, the more resistant they become to ANY information that they have made wrong choices and decisions. At best they will seek reassurance from others that they made right choices, and will read and quote supporting opinion, in order to increase their comfort level.

I will use CogD as an abbreviation.

An example: A man both drives a Hummer, and has the Dealership to sell Hummers. He has invested all his money in the business. From CogD theory I could predict he will reject the concept of Peak Oil and that the recent rise in the price of gasoline is a long term trend.

Assume two cases. If I gave him two articles:

1) A report that said gasoline prices are just a conspiracy by the oil companies to raise prices, and that increasing oil supplies are coming that will quickly return gas prices to 2001 levels,

OR

2) A financial news report that showed actual data that proved that a decline in Saudi Arabian oil outputs had just occurred and that this that proved that peak oil predictions were right, and that gasoline prices were going to double in the next year.

From CogD theory I could predict he would love article 1, quote it and email it to his friends and customers. He would trash article 2. He would lower his opinion of me, because just the act of giving him the Peak oil article showed I was "not one of his type of people".

On the other hand, if I give both articles to a person shopping for a car with no commitment one way or the other, they would probably be interested in both articles, would read them, check them out, and decide which would guide their car choice. Since they have no position or commitment they can be open minded about the issues.

Applying CogD more broadly. There are those in high places of government, industry, and academia where their whole world depends on Peak Oil not being true. They will attack any ideas, publications, or people that threaten their entrenched position. They are not malicious.
The select their own information inputs to reinforce their own positions, and ignore opposing views. By selecting our own propaganda, and who we associate with, we lower dissonance, which is that uncomfortable feeling we get when we think we may have made a BIG MISTAKE!.

One of the most famous examples of CogD were Jews in Nazi Germany. Those who had wealth, high positions in universities, and business, did not believe that Hitler was after them. They accepted stories, that Goldberg down the street must have really done some serious crime when he was arrested by the Gestapo. They believed they were OK, because they were law abiding loyal Germans.

So I predict that those supporting Peak Oil information will have a hard time explaining their "oil shortage is coming" case to a world with massive investments that assume a continuing supply of oil at moderate prices. That world will reject the messengers of Peak Oil without reading their arguments, or will use any tactic to find fault in their data. Only those who do not have a major stake in this current world, or those with the rare ability to listen to opposing views objectively will be receptive.

A broader discussion of the theory of Cognitive Dissonance is at:
http://www.afirstlook.com/archive/cogdiss.cfm

Any other examples or opposing views welcome.
:)
Last edited by donshan on Mon 31 Oct 2005, 20:01:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby rogerhb » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 21:49:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('George Monbiot', 'T')ell people something they know already,
and they will thank you for it. Tell them
something new, and they will hate you for it.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby rogerhb » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 22:27:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', 't')hen it stands to reason that some people are literally unable to 'get' PO because they are psychologically, intellectually, and genetically incapable of it.


So add that to another item in the todo book "deal with the hysterical masses".

I've always believed that panic is a defence mechanism in that it is better to do something than nothing. The ones who are the true leaders (ie, not the one's who have the gift of the gab) are the ones who can suppress the urge to panic and instead think logically.

Watch "We Were Soldiers" and watch how the Lt Col acts, he said that he was always thinking "What can I do now that would improve the situation?".
Last edited by rogerhb on Sun 30 Oct 2005, 22:33:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby donshan » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 22:30:35

I would guess that most of those posting on this Forum believe, as I do, that Hubbert is right, and the only question is "when" and "what to do" about Peak Oil. However, I suggest we listen to any of those with a dissenting view.

EVERYONE is susceptible to CogD, even supporters of PO. Don't read and listen just to PO supporters, to make you comfortable. I hope the opponents will be here too with their viewpoints and information as to why the PO argument is wrong.

I almost always learn something from people with opposing views. Even if it is just how best to avoid angering them.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby rogerhb » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 22:36:33

Don't forget that "flip-flopping" is like political suicide. People are always keen to dig-up some speech they made twenty years ago to show they said something different.

It's as if "changing ones mind" is classed as a weakness.

Like "I voted for it before I voted against it", so what does that mean? Looks terrible when pulled out in todays sound-bite world.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby some_guy282 » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 22:59:50

I remember first learning about CogD in my freshman psychology class. We were shown a video of true believers of a televangelist. I forget his name, but he was able to "know" things about people in his audience using his "powers." He knew why they were there, what they wanted, etc. Of course he told them everything was going to be alright. Someone intercepted radio transmissions of his wife reading information to him that he heard wearing an ear piece. Everyone in the audience had filled out questonaires after they came in, and the most interesting stories were selected. He then got the info via earpiece from his wife, and pretended god was telling him.

So the people being interviewed in the video had sent large donations to him. They were shown the video of him calling people out in the audience, with audio of his wife giving him the information synchronized. Did it alter their opnion? Nope. One guy said that the tape proved he may have cheated just that one time, but that all the other times he's sure the guy really was being sent messages by god.

I was amazed at their stupidity when I saw that video. And now I see it in everyone around me in our whole society. Believing two things at the same time that are completely contradictory. It's Orwellian double think. Very sad.
Last edited by some_guy282 on Mon 31 Oct 2005, 11:26:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby GrizzAdams » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 23:05:44

I agree that truth is in the eye of the beholder, which is why I stress over critical though.

Introduction to Critical Thinking
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby rogerhb » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 23:06:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GrizzAdams', 'I') stress over critical though[t].


Now don't stress too much or you will panic or get hysterical.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby GrizzAdams » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 23:18:36

well, you don't have to take that too literally.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby donshan » Sun 30 Oct 2005, 23:19:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'D')on't forget that "flip-flopping" is like political suicide. People are always keen to dig-up some speech they made twenty years ago to show they said something different.

It's as if "changing ones mind" is classed as a weakness.

Like "I voted for it before I voted against it", so what does that mean? Looks terrible when pulled out in todays sound-bite world.


Your are right, and it may require a genuine oil crisis before anyone can change their minds. Witness Katrina. Before the storm, excellent studies predicted what a major hurricane would do. It would have taken about $3 Billion to fix the New Orleans levees up to CAT 5 levels. No one was interested at that price, but NOW, $150 Billion is "necessary" and minds are changed.

A few quotes"
"Unfortunately, Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago."
Bernard Berenson (1865 - 1959)

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative."
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900)

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882)
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 00:10:39

There's another word for cognitive dissonance: bias.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby CrudeAwakening » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 02:21:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('donshan', '
')In one of its forms, cognitive dissonance predicts that the greater that an individual invests his money, reputation, and effort into something, the more resistant they become to ANY information that they have made wrong choices and decisions. At best they will seek reassurance from others that they made right choices, and will read and quote supporting opinion, in order to increase their comfort level.


Yes, I'm sure it's no coincidence that my friends who are least receptive to the idea of PO are those who have recently over-extended themselves to buy a house or business, and started a family. They just don't want to know.

And try saying the words "housing bubble" to a new home buyer.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby some_guy282 » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 11:31:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CrudeAwakening', '
')Yes, I'm sure it's no coincidence that my friends who are least receptive to the idea of PO are those who have recently over-extended themselves to buy a house or business, and started a family. They just don't want to know.

And try saying the words "housing bubble" to a new home buyer.


Yup. See it all the time. Some of them go so far as to admit that it's probably true, but they want to enjoy the little time they have left in blissful ignorance.
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. – Nietzsche

Time makes more converts than reason. – Thomas Paine

History is a set of lies agreed upon. – Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby BrownDog » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 12:51:08

This thread raises a very good point. Without naming it, I've been considering CogD on a variety of topics, and especially since learning about PO. I have specifically expressed the ideas with my wife when sharing concerns about PO with her, and told her that I want to remain cautious in taking one side or another and not considering counter-evidence. It's been difficult, but a very good exercise.

I've become increasingly aware of CogD in many areas of public discourse, and particularly in politics. I've observed a tendency to polarize issues lately into what I refer to as "kindergarden logic". Just as kindergardeners learn their left hand from their right hand, many ideas are filtered as 'left of right'. Or more recently, 'red or blue' (another kindergarden lesson...). But doing so seems to emphasize the CogD tendency, by making the discussions even more one-sided.

I constantly remind myself that Truth (capital 'T') exists regardless of rhetorical tactics. If open discourse helps bring issues to the front, then it is good. But we have to be careful not to take the arguments as a substitute for reality. As CogD theory illustrates, we can fool even ourselves if we're not constantly diligent.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognititive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 14:25:37

The problem is that the "truth" of interest (when it comes to PO-related arguments) generally lies in the future. There's no way of knowing it no matter how carefully you police your thoughts or how little bias you attempt to show.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognitive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby Jake_old » Tue 08 Nov 2005, 17:23:07

Well thats just great, Cognitive Dissonance, another biggy to ponder.

Is there a test for sufferers of CogD or is it something we all just have?

I can't even be sure if i'm wrong about something :x

thanks guys
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognitive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 08 Nov 2005, 17:27:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedJake', 'W')ell thats just great, Cognitive Dissonance, another biggy to ponder.


I think therefore I maybe.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognitive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby BILL_THA_PHARMACIZT » Tue 08 Nov 2005, 19:20:34

here is a question...

are people that gravitate towards excuses ( the hummer dealer in your analogy) making the excuse because if they admitted or entertained the thoughts that the worse case scenerio might be true they feel they would have to do something about it...

or is it that they simply don't give a shit and try and voice there indifference in a socially acceptable way without just syaing " It's beyond my control - so I don't care"
people are going to persue whatever they percieve to be in their own interests and thats always changing because everything in life is in constant motion
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognitive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby Revi » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 17:49:13

I keep thinking of Kunstler's idea of the consensus trance. We all have convinced ourselves as a culture that we can expand energy use endlessly without any consequences. There is no need to produce, just consume. The world will provide. Will it? Just mentioning some of the scary and obvious things that are looming is threatening to most people. We just go on quietly preparing and doing things to improve our position. People think we're wierd. Discussing generators I mentioned that there may not be fuel in an emergency and that solar was better. People didn't know what I was talking about. Seemed obvious to me. Gas stations run on electricity. They just can't imagine that gas may not be available. I realized that they live in a different reality from me.
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Re: Peak Oil and Cognitive Dissonance Theory

Unread postby Revi » Thu 10 Nov 2005, 10:02:42

I was thinking about the theory of cognitive dissonance and peak oil last night. I realized that I fall into it too. Since I have spent a lot of money and time in preparing for peak oil, I have a stake in it happening. I watch the price of oil, and think that every time it goes up I am confirmed in the preparations I've made. Since I've put so much into it I am convinced of the reality of peak oil. I'd have a hard time believing peak oil's critics.
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