[Ayoob_Reloaded]

Are there any long-term fiat currencies that have not... lost ground against gold? What I mean is, are there any countries that have had a fiat currency in continuous circulation without devaluations that have kept pace with gold?

[tdrive]

Swiss franc

[katkinkate]

My understanding was that the Swiss Franc was fully backed by Swiss-owned gold. I don't think its a fiat currency.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', 'E')NERGY = GOD = MONEY = GOLD

[tdrive]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y understanding was that the Swiss Franc was fully backed by Swiss-owned gold. I don't think its a fiat currency.

[Tyler_JC]

You can't expect people to loan out money at zero interest. It's not going to happen. Without a return on investment, there is no investment. Why would anyone loan money to someone and have to live for 7 years without his money, knowing that he won't get anything extra back?

People loan out money because they believe that the interest on the loan will be worth more than the inconvience of not having that money. For example, Bob loans Joe $100 to buy a cow. Bob wants $110 back after 5 years. Joe agrees because the cow is worth more to him than that $110. Bob agrees because he knows that Joe will be able to pay him back $110.

Why doesn't Bob want only $100 back? Well, Bob had to give up some of his wealth for a long period of time. He was hurt financially by not having that wealth when he wanted it. He had to wait for 5 years to get his money back. In the mean time, inflation ate away at his buying power and products that he may have wished to buy are denied to him. Bob is not required to sacrifice his happiness so that Joe can have a cow. Now, Bob can loan Joe $100 and expect $110 worth of milk back. That's fine as long as Bob is happy with getting milk back instead of cash/gold/whatever.

[RiverRat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')aphael … Not unlike an appraiser who arrives at a value for a property by first determining the value of the land (nature/resources,location), based on its highest and best use. Then all the manmade improvements on the property are added to the value of the land to arrive at a 'market price'.

[merecat]

I'm probably not the first to have thought this but here goes: Fiat money is, as far as I see it, paper money that is not geared constantly to gold. The current fiat system started when the Bretton Woods system ended on August 15, 1971, when President Richard Nixon ended trading of gold at the fixed price of $35/ounce.

Why did the dollar leave its golden anchor?...OIL... Shortly after the USA peaked, nixon cut the dollar free. This was necessary if economic growth was to continue in the US. The US simply didn't have enough gold to pay for the required oil imports. The eastern exporters were annoyed that they were suddenly being paid with what was tantamount to rags when compared to gold. This I beleive was the basis for all the oil fiascos of the 70s.

If there was no such thing as war, and a fair free market was allowed to run, then after the oil age has finished all of the gold should be sat in the countries who had the last oil, of course the USA doesn't want to leave the oil age without any gold, so it is about to fight to keep hold of it. All the gold discovered on earth thus far would fit in a cube 22 meters on a side, most of that block should by rights end up in the middle east.

An interesting conundrum is this: If the last barrels of oil will be paid for in gold, where abouts on the oil downslope would it be necessary to start demanding gold in order to assure that all of the remaining gold were used to purchase oil? Bear in mind that as oil gets scarcer its value should go up, how high could its value go? well thats debatable, but I think the skies the limit really.

Anyone agree/disagree with me?

[katkinkate]

I just came across this article about gold confiscation.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05 ... 42205.html

Maybe you should be looking into investing in a currency that is still based on gold, ie. the Swiss franc, rather than the shiny yellow stuff itself.

[bobbyald]

Is the Swiss franc 100% backed by gold?

[bobbyald]

Your comments are correct as far as my knowledge is concerned.

The oil producers would just love to price their oil in gold but it would be suicide and they know it.

Pricing oil in Euros would be the end of the US$ as a reserve currency and probably worse. Iran plans to open its oil bourse doing exactly this next spring which is why the US are planning military action there. Stonger Russian and Chinese ties make the whole situation extremely unstable.

[jimmydean]

Firstly, this book is freely available via the Gutenberg Project: link. It was written in 1912 by Andrew Dickensen White, a noted U.S. diplomat, economist and co-founder of Cornell university, about the 1791-1796 fiat currency crisis in France.

Extremely well written even capturing some of the actual political debates regarding moving from "species" money to paper money. Unfortunately it is almost comical as the government continually denied the negative economic impacts of the continued printing of Assignats. Most interesting was the speculation that arose at the time. Worth a read online or even better pickup a hardcopy

[MicroHydro]

Excellent resource.

[mmasters]

Fantastic Video. Everyone at PO.com owes it to themselves to have a watch. It's about an hour long and is very nicely done! link

From the maker's website link $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Find out why some feel the Federal Reserve System is a "bunch of organized crooks" and others feel some of its practices "are in violation of the U.S. Constitution." Discover why experts agree the Fed is a banking cartel that benefits mainly bankers, their clients in need of easy money and a Congress that would rather increase the Gross National Debt than seek funding from its constituents.

Well-known author, G. Edward Griffin, Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas) and Dr. Edwin Vieira, Ph.D., J.D. from Harvard (a foremost authority on the Constitution and the author of Pieces of Eight) discuss the Fed and various long-term studies which indicate that the Federal Reserve System encourages war, destabilizes the economy, generates inflation (a hidden tax) and is the supreme instrument of unjust enrichment for a select group of insiders. Dr. Theodore Baehr (founder of MOVIEGUIDE®) discusses the relationship between the Media, the Fed and the Government and why you never see these issues discussed on network TV or cable.

[gampy]

The google video version quit half way through, I wasn't able to see the end, so excuse me if this question is addressed in the film.

My question is this. How does Congress repeal the Federal Reserve Act? Or get back to a gold backed currency? Is this possible?

Can you ever see the US government (or any other government, for that matter) enacting some kind of legislation that would prevent them from spending more than they receive in taxes? Has it gone too far?

Are we doomed to remain in thrall to central banks until the excrement hits the fans?