[Fishman]

So Preston, you're down on pstarr's rants?
The post was "The Native's are getting restless" Do I think we'll have 2.50 gas, no way. Do I love the thrashings about by the left as gas prices go up, sure. They pounded Bush about gas prices, though there was little he could do, though Obama may not have much to do about gas prices, his popularity is as directly tied as Bush's was. Turn about is a bitch ain't it? Pstarr, I'm confused, I thought you were getting what you wanted, less carbon, less use of petroleum. Darn shame it comes at the price of a wrecked economy and a crumbling presidency.

[AgentR11]

Its a bitter pill for the left to swallow really. They know increased gasoline prices are *the* answer to encouraging and directing the economy towards the types of activities that they would prefer. [public transport, dense village/city community, walkable, multi-family construction, etc] They can't stand that it has happened as a result of the real cost of the product, as opposed to simply heavy taxation of gasoline. This means, that professionals, sitting out in the suburbs make no adjustments or very slight ones, and don't move, and don't become tied to the liberal preferred design; while the poor are getting really gouged hard on transportation costs because all that money that was supposed to be there for rail and busses and subsidies, isn't there.

What's worse, is now that the price of gas is "high"; how can lefties manage to turn around and sell "we need a $3/gallon tax on transportation fuel"? It'd be open revolt from their base, and irritated "told ya so" from their opposition.

Its the answer that has gutted the solution.

Now, if the price were to rise so high as to flat price out most of the poor, clearing the road for me and my 18 yr old pickup (lol), then the left could come back to the high fuel tax pitch, but I think at that point it would be to late to expect it to generate enough revenue to accomplish the public transportation objectives of the left.

[ritter]

Nice post, Agent. Sums it all up pretty nicely and is exactly why we are fukt.

[AgentR11]

Um, I didn't even quote you. I'm not "twisting" anything. I'm stating my particular opinion about gas prices in the context of a reference to the preferences of certain politicians.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'U')m, I didn't even quote you. I'm not "twisting" anything. I'm stating my particular opinion about gas prices in the context of a reference to the preferences of certain politicians.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'U')m, I didn't even quote you. I'm not "twisting" anything. I'm stating my particular opinion about gas prices in the context of a reference to the preferences of certain politicians.

[davmoo]

If I actually thought that governments would use increased gasoline taxes in a wise way, I might be for them. If I actually thought that carbon trading would help the environment instead of filling Goldman Sachs coffers, I might be for them. Unless someone comes along as a leader, real soon, who is not just a "yes we can" mouthpiece for corporations and special interest groups, and I am talking about all current world leaders, I truly beleive we, as the plebs of the world are on our own.All we can do is try and build strong families, neighbourhoods, communities. Take care of your situation as best you can, try to prepare for tough times as best you can and live everyday as
enjoyably as you can.

[careinke]

Democrats miss their mothers and call on the Government to replace them, Republicans miss their fathers and want the government to replace them, and Libertarians want everyone to be an adult and want the government to mind its own business.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'D')emocrats miss their mothers and call on the Government to replace them, Republicans miss their fathers and want the government to replace them, and Libertarians want everyone to be an adult and want the government to mind its own business.

[Newfie]

I'll add a few to the zillion.

I would like to take a wee bit of exception to the 'freeloader' part. Not that I like freeloaders.

We live in a very efficient society, fueled by cheap oil we live in a land of plenty. We SHOULD have been able to relax a little, cut back signifigantly on our work week, gone fishing and sailing a lot more.

As it is we don't do that. We have a personal NEED to work, to feel productive.

Thus we end up creating a consumer society, so that we have a 'job' and 'full employment.' But what is the VALUE of our labor?

As long as we are busy that is enough, we don't measure whether or not what we are doing is of an real meaning. Self included for far too long.

As a result we have burned through our precious fossil fuels at an alarming rate merely to enjoy the arcade environment.

Collectively we are like drunken sailors on a three day pass with 3 months of back pay in our pocket.

Now we are groaning our way to wakefulness. As we come to we are feeling the first blush of what is likely to be a first class hangover, and where did I leave my wallet anyway. And who is responsible for this mess? Bastards!

[Ibon]

Haven't read through this whole thread but I have to chime in with Pstarr that what Newfie wrote was really accurate.

Something else comes to mind. We are all small self contained tyrants wielding these digital tools where any and all information is available at the punch of a keypad. This has replaced something of real value that is archetypal and goes back to our village tribal roots; Mentors, sages, shamans, teachers, gurus, professors, academics, priests.

I look back at the mentors and teachers of my youth who I looked toward with inspiration be they naturalists or comedians . I sense we are all so self contained that we no longer honor the wisdom of elders.

I think we suffer from a relativism that is a direct result of so much information that is no longer filtered through a kind of organic due diligence that vetted and helped define the wisdom of generations embodied in individuals who were our mentors.

We have disenfranchised our sages.

I enjoy reading someone like John Michael Greer and can identify him for example of fulfilling the role somewhat of mentor for a subculture of folks wanting to adapt to the 21st century realities. How great that he has a venue that can reach so many. And yet I am left with a sense that he is just another relative voice out there in the cyber world. There is no real synthesis that separates the noise from substance.

Our scientists, priests and academics all get homogenized with the mediocre background noise of the dumbed down bulk of the stupid masses.

[Newfie]

Back in the 60's Marshall McLuhan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan) coined the phases "The Global Village" and "The Medium is the Message." He thought that as we had more and more information we would all find common ties and become a more unified world. We would share heroes and villains.

Unfortunately he was wrong. Our prehistory is too strong. No matter the tool we are given we tend to turn it to our primitive uses. Thus radio and TV and all the other mediums out there (Twitter, and Twatter and whatever) end up NARROWING our perspective.

Now Google is starting to tailor our search messages so that we see first that stuff we are personally most interested in.

There is a very real danger here in that each sub-group, sect, just gets reinforcing messages and actually believes that their own message is the predominant view.

The problem is that, even though I am aware of this phenomenon, I am at it's mercy. I no longer have TV and rarely listen to the radio as I walk to work. Thus my only news source is through the internet, which tends to be pretty biased because I tend to talk to like minded folks only.

Tis a dismal prospect that forebodes civil war, if we last that long.

[Revi]

I think the natives are still relatively passive, but they could get stirred up into a frenzy if they wake up a little from their drug induced stupor. The cost of gas and oil will get them riled. A lot of them have humungous gas guzzling trucks, but soon it will get expensive to drive even fuel efficient small cars. We are talking about the end of a lifestyle that has been around for almost a hundred years. People aren't going to let it go without a fight.

[stephankrasner]

OP: The real question over the next few years is: Can we keep what's left of our democratic system without giving our power for oil? The price of a gallon of gas and a plate of food is still nothing compared with other countries and the American people are still looking for easy answers (speculators, drill baby drill) to a problem that most people know is difficult. Like Dave Emory says, "easy answers lead to final solutions". I find myself defending the simple principle of supply and demand on a daily basis now. Nobody wants to hear it.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'T')he problem is that, even though I am aware of this phenomenon, I am at it's mercy. I no longer have TV and rarely listen to the radio as I walk to work. Thus my only news source is through the internet, which tends to be pretty biased because I tend to talk to like minded folks only.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e are much too violent and well armed as a people to think that a civil war will result in anything other than most dead and everything burned to the ground

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e are much too violent and well armed as a people to think that a civil war will result in anything other than most dead and everything burned to the ground