[SeaGypsy]

Being an American born dual national Australian, I have copped shite all my life from the Uncle end about my insistence that Australia was going to outlive the USA in lifestyle terms; for a very long time.
My basis for this assertion was that Australia is perfectly placed to take advantage of the virtually unstoppable rise
of China.

The USA has been poised to become a resource importer to an exponential extent, simultaneously losing any tech advantage over it's competitors and long since having lost any productivity advantage in real cost terms.

The final battle between the great hegemonies is taking a very interesting tone, not least philosophicly
.
Beware , my American brothers and sisters, there are some lethally clever business people in South East Asia.
Between Australian and African resources, Chinese ingenuity, hard work for 'peanuts'; you guys are in some serious shite.

Yeah we are all ultimately in it big time; but not just yet
.
The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'B')eing an American born dual national Australian, I have copped shite all my life from the Uncle end about my insistence that Australia was going to outlive the USA in lifestyle terms; for a very long time.
My basis for this assertion was that Australia is perfectly placed to take advantage of the virtually unstoppable rise
of China.

The USA has been poised to become a resource importer to an exponential extent, simultaneously losing any tech advantage over it's competitors and long since having lost any productivity advantage in real cost terms.

The final battle between the great hegemonies is taking a very interesting tone, not least philosophicly
.
Beware , my American brothers and sisters, there are some lethally clever business people in South East Asia.
Between Australian and African resources, Chinese ingenuity, hard work for 'peanuts'; you guys are in some serious shite.

Yeah we are all ultimately in it big time; but not just yet
.
The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'B')eing an American born dual national Australian, I have copped shite all my life from the Uncle end about my insistence that Australia was going to outlive the USA in lifestyle terms; for a very long time.
My basis for this assertion was that Australia is perfectly placed to take advantage of the virtually unstoppable rise
of China.

The USA has been poised to become a resource importer to an exponential extent, simultaneously losing any tech advantage over it's competitors and long since having lost any productivity advantage in real cost terms.

The final battle between the great hegemonies is taking a very interesting tone, not least philosophicly
.
Beware , my American brothers and sisters, there are some lethally clever business people in South East Asia.
Between Australian and African resources, Chinese ingenuity, hard work for 'peanuts'; you guys are in some serious shite.

Yeah we are all ultimately in it big time; but not just yet
.
The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[vision-master]

No, but the 9mm and 380 are fully loaded right now!

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'N')o, but the 9mm and 380 are fully loaded right now!

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')If you had to have a 50/50 board running your company (Guv/Private) perhaps you would believe cummunism still exists in China?

China's biggest real competition will come from her diaspora, Asia will be laughing at the USA soon. There are 2 China's internal and external. They have far more in common than China internal has with the west. They will compete, but they will avoid war along with exhorbitant wages and service costs.

As for Chinese junk.... how old are you? Do you remember when Japan made crappy b grade shite and scratched it's way by tooth and claw to Westernism? Aren't Harley Davidson parts manufactured in Japan these days because the Japs can make a Harley that doesn't leak oil?

[SeaGypsy]

Everyone in the world has heard about the asian obsession with "Face" (Public Dignity).

This is not Myth.

It is the Law of Survival in Asia.

Asia is infinitely safer than western countries because of this simple fact:

"Mind your manners and your manners will mind you."

When the bad guys get on the meths in Asia they hunt the ill mannered rather than their family or school mates they don't like.

[hillsidedigger]

I suspect China will shortly become one of the first really dramatic examples of 'dieoff' not from starvation but from poisoning. India and parts of Africa will get to demonstrate the starvation principle.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', 'I') suspect China will shortly become one of the first really dramatic examples of 'dieoff' not from starvation but from poisoning. India and parts of Africa will get to demonstrate the starvation principle.

[AgentR]

I think many Westerner's misunderstand what Chinese hegemony would be like, because they view it from our own history; which almost invariably involves territorial expansion and projection of military power. China is very different in practically every way, and while they are managing their currency in a way that could very well lead to its adoption as the next international reserve currency, one would be very unlikely to see projected power outside the historic borders. China would look at a suggestion of ruling SE asia like a plate full of plague; much better to create dependent business ties doing transactions in rinminbi. Troops cost money, businesses make money.

I think people around here get wrapped up in a "The US is going to get it!" mentality. Truthfully, the moment the US ceases to be an asset to China in its build out efforts, is the moment they will no longer give two flips about whether we are successful and comfortable, or destitute and starving. Irrelevant is Irrelevant.

My hunch is that trade between the US and China will taper off some, but will remain significant for a very long time; as their need for dollars drops, the motivation to make little worthless plastic trinkets used for a couple hours of a child's entertainment should come to an end; but the US still grows or manufactures an interesting array of stuff to sell. In the end, the best way to finalize the change over, is to get the previous printer of the reserve currency to use your currency to conduct international trade.

I think that day is closer than many on Wall Street would like to believe; could come even sooner than would make China comfortable. Stable currency is stable. Stable means a dependable mark of valuation, something the dollar no longer is.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'I') think many Westerner's misunderstand what Chinese hegemony would be like, because they view it from our own history; which almost invariably involves territorial expansion and projection of military power. China is very different in practically every way, and while they are managing their currency in a way that could very well lead to its adoption as the next international reserve currency, one would be very unlikely to see projected power outside the historic borders. China would look at a suggestion of ruling SE asia like a plate full of plague; much better to create dependent business ties doing transactions in rinminbi. Troops cost money, businesses make money.

I think people around here get wrapped up in a "The US is going to get it!" mentality. Truthfully, the moment the US ceases to be an asset to China in its build out efforts, is the moment they will no longer give two flips about whether we are successful and comfortable, or destitute and starving. Irrelevant is Irrelevant.

My hunch is that trade between the US and China will taper off some, but will remain significant for a very long time; as their need for dollars drops, the motivation to make little worthless plastic trinkets used for a couple hours of a child's entertainment should come to an end; but the US still grows or manufactures an interesting array of stuff to sell. In the end, the best way to finalize the change over, is to get the previous printer of the reserve currency to use your currency to conduct international trade.

I think that day is closer than many on Wall Street would like to believe; could come even sooner than would make China comfortable. Stable currency is stable. Stable means a dependable mark of valuation, something the dollar no longer is.

[SeaGypsy]

Not sure if this applies extremely broadly but I will use myself as an example.

Some poeple here know I wipe bums for a living.

Fewer know thar 10 years ago I was making 20 times my hourly rate now, blowing glass.

What happened was this:

the Chinese collected a lot of information about glass art business, they then advertised and hired a bunch of new fresh graduate glassblowers over a period of 10 years from the mid/late 90's.

To start with the stuff was crap. It got better.

Now it is impossible to tell Chinese art glass from Australian or American or Austrian or Dutch, except by turning it upside down to note the artists signature.

Chinese artists who would be famous for their skill in the west do not even sign their work in China.

An American street cleaner makes more per hour than this artist makes in a day.

Chinese can retail hand blown glass in the west, cheaper than we can make raw glass.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'T')hose who think China can't do world class manufacturing are living in fantasy land.The high end tech coming out of China is up there with th best in the world. Sorry.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'T')hose who think China can't do world class manufacturing are living in fantasy land.The high end tech coming out of China is up there with th best in the world. Sorry.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'I') think many Westerner's misunderstand what Chinese hegemony would be like, because they view it from our own history; which almost invariably involves territorial expansion and projection of military power. China is very different in practically every way, and while they are managing their currency in a way that could very well lead to its adoption as the next international reserve currency, one would be very unlikely to see projected power outside the historic borders. China would look at a suggestion of ruling SE asia like a plate full of plague; much better to create dependent business ties doing transactions in rinminbi. Troops cost money, businesses make money.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', 'I') suspect China will shortly become one of the first really dramatic examples of 'dieoff' not from starvation but from poisoning. India and parts of Africa will get to demonstrate the starvation principle.