[hope_full]

What do you think the history books will say was the defining event that started the unraveling of the post-WW2 Great American Dream?

I believe the most egregious event - and the one that clearly signaled the beginning of the end - will be the $1,000,000,000,000 tax-payer bail-out of the financial industry.

I bet new reforms and laws will eventually be put in place - when all is said and done - that prohibit such a thing from ever occuring again, much as new rules and regs popped up after the Great Depression.

[Gerben]

I think people are overestimating the importance of the financial 'industry'. It's not an industry that produces anything. The 'solutions' that we see are not solving the basic problem: Americans buying more goods than they produce. As long as the government is not willing to take tough measures that will change this, they can only postpone the crisis and not solve it. Throwing in another Trillion won't matter.
I hope history will look at the foolishness of the politicians who are ruining their own economy in exchange for votes and be wise enough to blame them (even though it's those in power that write history).
After the great depression there were measures taken from it happening ever again. Those measures were later 'deregulated' to allow the bubble to expand. We don't need new measures, we need the old measures back in place.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hope_full', 'W')hat do you think the history books will say was the defining event that started the unraveling of the post-WW2 Great American Dream?

I believe the most egregious event - and the one that clearly signaled the beginning of the end - will be the $1,000,000,000,000 tax-payer bail-out of the financial industry.

I bet new reforms and laws will eventually be put in place - when all is said and done - that prohibit such a thing from ever occuring again, much as new rules and regs popped up after the Great Depression.

[nero]

They will mark this as the start of the economic malaise that left America too weak to challenge China's bid for world dominance in 2020.

predictions:
- Shanty towns and tent cities become a common sight again in America
- open shows of wealth are viewed as vulgar.
- Some areas of large american cities become no go areas for the police except in SWAT gear
- The populist call for increased taxation for the wealthy will lead to a more progressive tax system
- American nativism leads to a real closing of the nation to immigration from Latin America
- the dollar devalues. The US dollar loses it's place as the default currency of world finance
- America is forced to start borrowing in euros , Yen and Renmimbi
- America institutes a national value added tax and they finally start getting a handle on their twin deficits.
- The WTO and UN become irrelavant as countries follow the lead of the US in ignoring their judgements
- Taiwan is peacefully reunified with mainland China
- Iraq and Iran come under China's sphere of influence. Selling their oil primarily to China
- China reaches the moon before America does it again

[Gorm]

I think China also will be in great trouble. Who will be the leading power in the future is wery hard to predict at this time.

[Cid_Yama]

<i>What will the history books say about this time?</i>

Certainly not what really happened. History will say that TPTB were the heros in all this, saving us all. Whoever tries to pin the tail on TPTB will be painted as the cause of all this.

You know the drill.

Already it's being painted as the fault of those thieving, lying, poor people.

[nero]

Yes China will have its share of problems as well, but they have become so dominant a power in manufacturing it is almost inevitable that the centre of power goes to them someday. My prediction is that it occurs sooner rather than later.

[nobodypanic]

just for fun, since we're just wildly speculating and pulling stuff out of our rear...

the end of the american republic and the emergence of the unabashed american empire. all pretense will be dispensed with and the world's largest military machine will now be used to extract wealth and resources directly, without any attempt at subterfuge. they won't care about civilian casualties and how it looks to the world media; they won't care about how anything looks. he who has the gun has the power.

rome transitioned and now the US will too. china? nothing but the 21st century's version of carthage or egypt at best.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', 'j')ust for fun, since we're just wildly speculating and pulling stuff out of our rear...

the end of the american republic and the emergence of the unabashed american empire. all pretense will be dispensed with and the world's largest military machine will now be used to extract wealth and resources directly, without any attempt at subterfuge. they won't care about civilian casualties and how it looks to the world media; they won't care about how anything looks. he who has the gun has the power.

[Daniel_Plainview]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', 'j')ust for fun, since we're just wildly speculating and pulling stuff out of our rear...

the end of the american republic and the emergence of the unabashed american empire. all pretense will be dispensed with and the world's largest military machine will now be used to extract wealth and resources directly, without any attempt at subterfuge. they won't care about civilian casualties and how it looks to the world media; they won't care about how anything looks. he who has the gun has the power.

[lper100km]

If you consider history to be defined as the events that occurred during and before the previous generation, rather than a rerun of last night’s news broadcast, then I have to ask - what books and who might be capable of reading them if they even existed? Further more, in another 25 yrs., who might even have the luxury of caring?

As to causation, I don’t think there is any single event that would precipitate an unravelling – rather an accumulation of a series of events that prove too much to be manageable on any scale, although whatever the last one is will likely be blamed.

[AgentR]

Centuries ago, a King went to the legislature and said, "I need money to fight this war and expand our empire".

The legislature said, "sure, but we want xyz too, so sign here." And he did.

Today's would be Kings read their history books and held their powder till the end, then went to the government and said, "I need money for my jacuzzi, and if you don't give it to me, I'm gonna let this whole mess fall apart.".

And [s]they[/s] we paid.
And the new Kings celebrated while all the barons and sheriffs below them, who thought they were on the right team, got hosed.

[AlexdeLarge]

Lots of blame to go around.........but why not start at a key point in time.

Community Reinvestment Act

[Starvid]

I don't know what they will write in the history book, but these event are very clearly historical. They will still be talked about in 50 or 100 years time, just like the Depression, WW2, the fall of the Soviet Union or the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

[Snowrunner]

It was the best of times and it ended in the worst of times.

[Uniquack]

I've long thought it funny that star trek and much of space-oriented sci fi depicts mostly white people everywhere. In fact, it will probably be mostly asian. No value judgement in that, just the facts, assuming the world has enough energy + centralizing power in the future to mount any such efforts.

Notice how since the 1970s, big industrial energy intensive projects (most poignantly symbolized by the Saturn V rockets) have faltered and stopped, while lower-energy, more efficient and profitable enterprises (computing, nanotech, etc.) have become the direction of industrial growth. In a way, industrial civilization has actually been orienting itself towards a peak future for a long time now.

Of course, it would be nice to see a space elevator built before things go caput, since that would allow continued space exploration even in a much lower energy future.

At some point, America might be a backwater exploited for its remaining natural resources at that point.

[Cloud9]

The history books will say that the housing collapse of 07 precipitated the banking collapse of 08 which ushered in the Great Depression of 09.

[heroineworshipper]

It'll be wiped from the Goog search results in 5 years just like the last savings & loan crisis & we'll get on with the next credit cycle. $2 million houses & $4000 rents will seem like a bargain. In fact, no-one even remembers dot com crash #1. It doesn't show up on Goog anymore.

[hope_full]

Cloud9, I think you're spot on in your analysis. Heroineworshipper, do you think hyperinflation is on its way??

Thanks for the replies. I do think we're witnessing truly historic, world-changing events in these most recent days and weeks.

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '&')lt;i>What will the history books say about this time?</i>

Certainly not what really happened. History will say that TPTB were the heros in all this, saving us all. Whoever tries to pin the tail on TPTB will be painted as the cause of all this.

You know the drill.

Already it's being painted as the fault of those thieving, lying, poor people.