[Chuckmak]

whether we like it or not, whether we want to or not, it's up to those in my generation to solve or at least soften the blow of peak oil. because history will see us as either the saviors of civilization or the destroyers of civilization.

am i near the target on this one?

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')m i near the target on this one?

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')m i near the target on this one?

[El_Producto]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', 'b')ecause history will see us as either the saviors of civilization or the destroyers of civilization.

am i near the target on this one?

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he last decade or so who stand the best chance of coming up with the deux ex machina solution in time.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy should the scientists do that?
1) Because they are appreciated and earn so much money they have to preserve the status quo?
2) Because the current civilization is geared towards a deeper understanding of the world and it should not end?
3) Because they have been heard by the public in so many occasions before?
4) Because a big chunk of global resources go to scientific understanding

[RonMN]

The problem (as i see it) is there is no "we"...If "we" could all start driving scooters...skipping the AC...bringing a burlap sack to the grocery store instead of using paper or plastic...Then "WE" could seriously cussion the blow & turn the peak into a long plateau. But even then we're looking at an economic collapse, but a much slower one.

I applaud your enthusiasm!!! I even share it sometimes...but people just wont change their ways until it's too late Bring up to 10 people, the idea of growing your own food...atleast 9 will look at you like you're a freak.

[EnergySpin]

rockdoc123
Do not get me wrong I agree with what you say about personal/scientific hurdles that have to be overcome.... I'm in the business (academic medicine) for the fun not for the money.
But when:
1) my brightest students choose to subspecialize on vaginal cosmetic surgery and cosmetic dermatology instead of specialties badly in need of clinicians and researchers
2) briliant friends of mine with electrical engineering and computer science degrees choose to do MBAs and e-commerce web sites instead of micro-electronics/ high performance scientific computing research
3) ....
4) ....
I wonder why should anyone who stays in the various fields should do anything about the mess.
After all science already provided:
- means to generate electricity from any source available (renewable or not)
- vaccines/medications
- maglev trains
- instant communication between two or more people across borders
and people decided that the McMansion vision (complete with 7mpg cars, casinos in the desert) was the way to go. Maybe it is time for people to pay for the decisions they made.
And no I'm not a doomer, I do believe that modern civilization (science technology, medicine, arts, culture) are saveable ... It is the McMansionites that worry me. They will take down everything else with them, including democracy, civil rights on a futile attempt to escape the consequences of their action.
And the answer is the one you pointed out .... back to the 50s, a less material and more spiritual/cultural outlook on life.
Cheers

[rockdoc123]

energyspin
got you on that....it is somewhat distressing that there doesn't seem to be that same ..."ah I'm doing this just because it is a really interesting problem" or " I'm doing this because mankind will benefit".
My guess is if we get rid of the consumerism bug people will find something better to do with their time....ie. looking for neat solutions to our problems whether they be energy use related or poverty or the plethora of other problems sitting out there.
Good luck to you on the medical side.....keep at it sooner or later there is going to be that one kid you teach who seems a bit dim or withdrawing who is gong to come up with the cure to alzheimers or colon cancer.

[TheSupplyGuy]

I'm 17, and I'm working on cutting my usage of well everything. But it gets pretty boring out in the middle of nowhere with dew points in the 80s and highs of low 90's(making any outdoor activity other than standing or walking nigh unbearable), so I lay on the tile floor, or get on the computer. My family does alright, the ac is set on 82/83 and the heating is on 69/70 during the day and off during the night.
But, in order for societies as a whole to adopt any change, it must start with non-hypocritical individuals to start the ball rolling, imo.

[The_Toecutter]

I'm 20. I have a vintage race car sitting in my garage that would be being converted to electric if I'd have a job and thus money to work on it. Fuel for autos alone account for 45% of America's oil usage, that 45% of America's oil usage 11% of the world's total oil usage, and here we are already sitting on technology not to need oil to fuel our automobiles. Wind energy is now cheaper than coal and it goes unused. Hemp is a perfect substitute for oil when it comes to petrochemicals, fertilizers, and diesels, helps prevent soil erosion and restores the soil, can grow in the most arid of farmland, yet the government will not allow people to grow it in America. Public transit, another good substitution for car use, was torn downby the auto industry that bought it up decades ago and most people drive because of necessity, not because they want to own a car.

We have had the solutions for some time. However, these solutions don't bring as much money from the pockets of individual people to the economy as our current methods. Electric cars don't need tune ups, oil changes or engine work. Wind doesn't need to be mined, extracted, processed, shipped, stored, and burned to produce energy. Producing biodiesel and petrochemical substitutes from hemp brings less money than simply producing diesel and petrochemicals from oil. Less corporate execs get even less money, the government gets less tax revenue.

The solutions are here, they've been here, and they're certainly scalable and capable of solving our problems.

But peak oil is going to make the oil industry even wealthier than it is in the short term. Each barrel of oil sold post peak will be many times greater in value than the oil sold pre peak. They don't care about a possible dieoff, they care about money, and it's looking less and less likely that we're going to correct the situation.

Thus, I'm a doomer. The problem can be corrected, but the status quo won't allow it to be corrected since the power elite will lose all their financial and political clout if we do correct it. So we probably won't. Enjoy the crash!

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '
')
And no I'm not a doomer, I do believe that modern civilization (science technology, medicine, arts, culture) are saveable ... It is the McMansionites that worry me. They will take down everything else with them, including democracy, civil rights on a futile attempt to escape the consequences of their action.

[Barbara]

Sadly, I don't think young people are going to save anyone. Here in the EU is quite the contrary: people over 40 still remember the sixties, remember their parent's stories of WWII, and like to conserve a bit.
But young people... they are completely on consumerism style, they buy a lot of techno rubbish, they think they just can use and throw away like there's no tomorrow.

If one day they'll come trying to put the blame on ME, I'll beat them on the head!!!

[rs]

It's not surprising the young are hooked on the consumer lifestyle. You just have to look at advertising to see the madness all around us.

Buy this car, the biggest TV, the biggest house, you've got to have the best designer clothes, the newest coolest phone, the latest ringtones, the latest cosmetic surgery, go on this diet, your kids need these toys and on and on and on....and if something breaks, just get a new one!

Personally, I don't think any age group is gonna save us..we're already screwed.

[Specop_007]

Somehow, some way, tequila hookers and blow is the solution.
I just havent exactly figured out how yet.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '
')The solutions are here, they've been here, and they're certainly scalable and capable of solving our problems...
Thus, I'm a doomer. The problem can be corrected, but the status quo won't allow it to be corrected since the power elite will lose all their financial and political clout if we do correct it. So we probably won't. Enjoy the crash!

[gg3]

It's up to everyone to contribute what they can to solving this.

Older people have more accumulated wealth (capital) and less physical stamina (labor). Younger people have less accumulated wealth and more physical stamina. There's your equity equation: some provide capital, others provide labor. And this time around, there's no room for either element (capital or labor) to jockey for an advantageous position: either we're all in, or we're all screwed.

Older people have knowledge of old-school skills. Younger people have knowledge of current skills. There's your knowledge equation: the older skills that are needed to improve the odds for sustaining under difficult conditions, the newer skills that are needed to make the best use of current-technology solutions.

Those who are young enough to not be into school or career have the greatest potential to choose paths that are aimed straight toward the nexus of problem and solution. For example various branches of engineering concerned with energy and materials, transportation and communication, and so on.

Those who have extraordinary wealth are in the position to do something extraordinary: set themselves up as self-funded developers of land, to start building the sustainable towns of tomorrow. Extraordinary because they are not subject to the usual pressure of investor-owned development companies to build more sprawl. And extraordinary because ultimately new patterns of land-use are the single most important factor in reducing reliance on transportation and increasing localized self-sufficiency.

Those who have extraordinary intelligence are also in the position to do something extraordinary: develop the ideas, theories, plans, and technologies that will be needed to make it through the transition. These individuals and their ideas should be cross-subsidized and invested in to the greatest extent possible to bring them to fruition on as large a scale as possible.

Those who have extraordinary talents in other areas of the human creative endeavours, i.e. the arts, athletics, philosophy, religion, education, politics, the law, the media: all of those areas that are not directly concerned with technology and engineering, are also in positions to do something extraordinary: turn their talents toward setting the examples and spreading the cultural memes that will lead the vast majority forward into the new world. These individuals should also be cross-subsidized and invested in to the greatest extent possible, for the same reasons.

And those who don't consider themselves extraordinary in any way, still have the power of their own hearts and minds and muscles, their own words among their families and friends, and their own actions in their day to day lives: they are part of the vast majority of ordinary humans whose lives are going to change, and they can also set the examples for those around them, on the ground, where it counts most of all. As they choose, so chooses their society. As they go, so goes their society.

There is much to do for each and every one of us. And there is not a moment to waste.

[EnergySpin]

gg3 Will you marry me?
Nice post ....