[Jack]

Excellent post! Not only have they made it worse, they are guaranteeing that the overshoot of population will be worse - and hence, the dieoff will be greater.

[smallpoxgirl]

"There is hope, but not for us." Franz Kafka

[mgibbons19]

It is important to remember that the folks here, though they differ, are the good guys. Most are here because they see a problem. Many of those who see conservation as necessary are already driving smaller cars. Many of those who think safety is out in them thar hills have already moved and are trying to build lives. Many of those that have suggested it is a financial problem have paid their debts and stocked up on gold.

Beware of most people statements. They overemphasize near boudaries.

For instance. Many punkers will go apeshit over who is and is not a real punker. They will split endless cvnt hairs over who counts and who is a poser. So ppl that look and act completely identically to everyone in the outside world can't stand each other. One's softcore and the other's hardcore, but by fractions of degrees. Meanwhile the obvious difference from suburban republicans isn't noted.

There may be a similar dynamic here. The doomers and the cornucopians are busy killing each other over which car somebody drives, or whether their place in the hills has enough axes to last until the next bronze age, or whether greenhouse chimneys and mirrors on the moon will save us. Meanwhile, the other 99.8% of carries on through their lives utterly clueless to the little battles here.

So, remember the fight is on the outside. The people here are here because they are concerned, even if they don't agree. They are trying. These people really aren't the problem.

This is Mike, playing the moderating role of the pragmatic xer in the teeth of the oncoming 4T gale. Ideals be damned, how do we get this thing done?

[Hawkcreek]

--

[smallpoxgirl]

I'm always a pessemist. The beauty of being a pessemist is that you get to be pleasantly surprised. If you're an optimist, things always turn out worse than you expected.

Actually, I guess really my approach is what the end of life docs refer to as "Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best."

[savethehumans]

I recently came upon a quote from none other than Patrick Henry (of American Revolution fame--the "give me liberty or give me death" guy):

Whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it.

If that's "pessimism," I'm a lifelong pessimist!

[Hawkcreek]

--

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'W')ell, I'm going to remain an optimist. Unless things get so bad that I have to eat my dog - and my truck breaks down - and my woman gets killed by the train - and the goddamn feds break up my still.
Even then, I will probably find something about life to enjoy - maybe just fixin my truck.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[Colorado-Valley]

Put me in the optimist camp ...

If we have a big enough die-off, the world may have a chance to repair itself and life can go on with significantly fewer human beings!

You just have to see things in their proper context .

[venky]

The poster brings up an interesting issue, if peak oil turns out as I expect; that is economic disruption, stagflation, possibility of wars etc, the question will definitely will be asked how could mankind allow such a catastrophe to creep up on it without any warning?

There is no answer. After all, the facts have been on the table for decades. Hubbert made his prediction almost 50 years ago, he was proved right in 71, since then we have seen so many countries peak one after and another, the 70's were an ample warning of how vulnerable our societies were to disruption to the steady flow of oil.

The people in charge, the politicians, chief economists, even leading scientists and engineers have all but ignored the issue and have chosen to believe the unrealistic predictions of the cornucopians which assure us that we will have oil forever. Our leaders have a responsibility to us which in this case they have miserably failed with perhaps fatal consequences. Thinking of this does sometimes fill me with anger.

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Colorado-Valley', 'P')ut me in the optimist camp ...

If we have a big enough die-off, the world may have a chance to repair itself and life can go on with significantly fewer human beings!

You just have to see things in their proper context .

[JohnDenver]

Nice try, Kochevnik, but when we're halfway up the mountain, the coward is the little weenie-boy saying "we'll never make it, we have to turn back." Screw the "limits".

[Agren]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ice try, Kochevnik, but when we're halfway up the mountain, the coward is the little weenie-boy saying "we'll never make it, we have to turn back." Screw the "limits".

[erl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I')'m always a pessemist. The beauty of being a pessemist is that you get to be pleasantly surprised. If you're an optimist, things always turn out worse than you expected.

Actually, I guess really my approach is what the end of life docs refer to as "Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best."

[RIPSmithianEconomics]

It's ironic that pessimism often inspires one to work harder at things. There is a difference between pessimism and despair- despair precipitates non-action, pessimism results in action that an optimist would not take out of hope.

I don't know how anyone could have a first hand look at British agriculture and not be a pessimist. It's become a losing battle over the last five years, and until imports become more expensive that home grown produce it will continue to be almost impossible to make a living at. You can bet that, by then, people will regret not keeping British farming afloat.

[BiGG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', '
')
The optimists lied to us, and most believed them. They ridiculed the intelligent, libelled the courageous and defamed the honest. They crucified (and continue to crucify) those who could have saved us from their lies and falsehoods.

Will they ever pay for what they did ?

No, they won't.

But you will.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', ' ') I get so tired of listening to all the sad jokers who insist that everyone else is going to die, and they are the only ones who have the tremendous mental and physical fortitude to stand even a chance of weathering the storm.

[Hawkcreek]

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[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut knowing that doesn't mean one should just lie down and accept that one WILL be part of the die-off. One should always strive to do whatever one thinks will best increase their chances of being among the small percentage that survives die-off.