[Ayoob_Reloaded]

I got the chance to spend a day with an old friend today. We hung out and did all manner of fun things. His wife wanted to know about what I do for fun and what my plans are, and why I'm moving to Oregon and what's up with studying constantly.

You know I just don't have the heart to talk to them about this topic. I know my friend and he's a technofixer. He and his lovely and very nice wife and their kids along with both sets of parents all live in a totally unsustainable area but have built up nice businesses for themselves and have a great life.

I've told my friend about this whole thing already and he's aware of what I'm talking about, he just disagrees. What do I do for fun? I study the news and my school subjects, and I go to the gym. I collect certain tools and books. I read nonstop about things related to food production and our economy. I stockpile certain things that I think will go up in price drastically and soon. I get involved in the local oil meetups. I pack BOB's and BHB's from time to time.

Also, I don't really want to spend my vacation talking about this stuff with my friend. He knows as much as he needs to know to do what he needs to do. If he does, he'll make it. If not, he can crash at my place for a while.

Seriously, I don't want to go into it with him, and I don't really want to get into it with anyone who's not already aware. I don't want to destroy people's hopes and dreams, I can let somebody else do that.

[RonMN]

I hear ya! I have to admit i have a tough time in normal conversation like that...you just can't tell somebody your latest hobby is trying to re-fit the flu to the fireplace to a wood burning stove...or buying a 50 pound sack of rice...it's just raining on their parade....

and they say "boy, he's quiet"...i try to think of current events & such so i have something to talk about at a family gathering. It's very strange sometimes.

[entropyfails]

*grin*
That sounds like the old “Mother Culture” talking in your ear, Ayoob. It has good lines like

“Someone else will take care of the problem.”
“You don't have to do anything to change people's vision, TV will do that for them.”
“Being a Stock Broker is an excellent idea because people-as-markets can fix everything and grow endlessly.”

Sound familiar?
Unfortunately, someone has to tell the truth. That ends up being us. Sorry, get used to it.

Do you want to end up clawing after radioactive bugs, waiting for the next insect plague to wipe out your crops and your life, desperately ruing for a chance to come back and wake the morons up before they started to drop the nukes?

To be fair, sometimes we all do things against our nature to keep our friends. But we must ask ourselves, if it comes to something as frightening as what stares us in the face, wouldn't we want our friends to turn us around so we could see the danger?

“I'm sorry you got run over by that truck, Joe. But you kept telling me to shut up when I wanted to warn you!”

What do real friends do?

[Colorado-Valley]

My way of keeping sanity about this is to inform people about the energy depletion problem, offer to let them watch my copy of The End of Suburbia and then let them do what they may.

I refuse to get into the technological-fix arguments anymore. I just tell them what Kunstler says, "technology is NOT energy."

I don't overdo it anymore. But I let them know about my concerns.

And who knows? Maybe the Saudis are sitting on several trillion barrels of cheap oil. Maybe Cheney has some kind of solar ray gun that will melt the oil out of the tar sands and oil shale formations.

Anyway, I find myself living two lives. Those with my friends who don't care, but are really nice people, and my peak-oil friends, who aren't afraid to deal with difficult realities.

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Colorado-Valley', '
')Anyway, I find myself living two lives.

[gg3]

One has to sympathise with the feeling of not wanting to embark upon a teaching-expedition each time, again and again and endlessly again.

And yet, in a free society we have not only the right but the duty to use our voices and motivate people about the issues of our times. Ultimately this translates to votes. And it is almost a certainty that energy policy will figure in the next Presidential election, but if it isn't, then our task is to make it so.

Bush is off to a decent start, particularly having broken the taboo against using the "n-word" (nuclear fission), and having broken the Republican taboo against the "c-word" (conservation). On the other hand, the potential criticism that these policy goals haven't been translated to concrete proposals yet, and don't go far enough. And we'll see if the Democrats come up with anything decent that can compete.

There are ways to bring up peak oil without sounding like an apocalyptic; even the idea of substantial inconvenience is enough to make most people take it seriously.

As well, one can explain a planned major change in lifestyle as being motivated by concerns for sustainability: living by example.

Both of these points will get you a basis for discussing nuclear, wind, and PV power, increased fuel efficiency standards, and similar measures that any reasonable person can get behind. And then suggesting that energy policy is directly relevant to economic outcomes, and people need to consider that when voting.

You can also slip it in as a tag-on, for example, when discussing the price of one thing or another, add, "...or whatever it'll cost in five to seven years when oil production goes flat and causes the price of everything to start rising..." Or, "...the Democrats (or Republicans, depending on your point of view) are full of it when they talk about lowering gas prices. Gas prices aren't coming down, world oil production is approaching peak and the price will keep going up..."

The key here is to make it part of the background, something people accept as if they've known about it themselves all along. Then they will start noticing the little news items and suchlike, and start paying more attention. At some point they'll pay enough attention that they start to form an opinion, and then hopefully get motivated enough to at least write to their elected officials and vote with energy policy in mind.

[Liamj]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
')...
The key here is to make it part of the background, something people accept as if they've known about it themselves all along. Then they will start noticing the little news items and suchlike, and start paying more attention. At some point they'll pay enough attention that they start to form an opinion, and then hopefully get motivated enough to at least write to their elected officials and vote with energy policy in mind.

[arretium]

That was great advice gg3. It sounds like you have some experience in this matter.

I tell ya, I've tried to discuss it with my friends and relatives. My wife got tired of my mantra on day 2. I'm just preparing as I can. I mention it from time to time to people who I think might be open to hearing the message, but in my view, why beat a brick wall? These people are almost literally still in the Matrix, living out their lives, oblivious to what is about to happen to them. It's affected me in very discrete ways. I'm doing what I can to prepare my family and that's about all I can do. When people start to wake up and ask me questions I can then explain it to them. But until then, there's not much I can do.

On the other hand, I'm surprised by the surge in peak oil news in the MSM. Before we had zero articles, but a couple of comments in MSNBC, CNN, and the Economist (it was discussed in great detail, and I wrote about it extensively in the energy resources discussion group). However, these comments go along ways to preparing these people as they plant seeds in their mind.

Menawhile, I'm learning the new bankruptcy code because personal bankruptcy will be the field of fields (for my profession) in 5 years.

[Doly]

Talking about peak oil nonstop to everybody may be a temptation, especially if you have just learnt about it, but it isn't a good idea. But not telling anybody because they won't listen isn't a good idea either.

I find the middle point works best. Give little tidbits of information to people. Many times, they won't want to believe it and will insist that somebody will fix the problem. This only means that they're going through the first stage: denial. Let them go through it. Eventually, at some point, they will realise that they are hiding their head in the sand.