[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ogozin Threatens to Deactivate GPS Stations in Russia

Deputy Prime Ministry Dmitry Rogozin has threatened to deactivate all Global Positioning System, or GPS, infrastructure operating on Russian soil if the U.S. does not agree to allow Russia to place Glonass stations on U.S. soil.

At a news conference Tuesday, Rogozin lashed out at the U.S. by calling it an "unreliable partner" and said it has until May 31 to begin negotiations on the placement of Russia's Glonass stations in the U.S. If this does not happen, he warned, then "on June 1 [Russia] will suspend the operation of these [GPS] stations on its territory," he said.

There are currently 11 such sites in Russia, established by agreements regarding the placement of GPS and Glonass infrastructure on each other's territory, and Rogozin said the U.S. had violated these agreements by stalling.

If the demanded negotiations fail, he said, GPS stations will be axed completely.

"I hope that these negotiations will find a way to restore proportional cooperation. If not, from Sept. 1, the operation of these stations will be stopped completely," he said.

Oleg Ostapenko, head of the Federal Space Agency, said the U.S. has been provided with all the necessary documentation required for the deployment of Glonass stations, and that "adequate measures will be taken with respect to U.S. stations on our territory."

Recently, the U.S. Congress requested that national security officials provide an assessment of the potential threat to national security infrastructure posed by the Russian Glonass stations if they were to be placed in the U.S.

Concerns over the threat posed by Glonass stations arose last November, when CIA and Pentagon officials alleged that they might be used for espionage.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/rogozin-threatens-to-deactivate-gps-stations-in-russia/500083.html

[Newfie]

Sometimes you set up a terrestrial station at a known fixed location to provide a " differential" signal. There can be errors in the satellite system, and the number of satellites, thus accuracy, varies at any given time. Having a reliable terrestrial base station allows for greater accuracy and reliability.

My best guess. I can't imagine it's a big deal.

[KaiserJeep]

It's actually a very big deal. The GPS and Glonass systems originated during the Cold War. Like the older LORAN-C and DECCA navigation systems, a built-in feature is "selective availability" which allows you to deny usage of the system to someone classified by the system owner as an enemy.

The GPS system is owned and operated by the USA (originally it was the US Navy "NAVSAT" system).

GLONASS is owned and operated by Russia.

COMPASS is owned and operated by the mainland Chinese.

The proposed Galileo system will be orbited by the ESA and used by EU members.

YES the ground stations supply enhanced accuracy, via differential signals. If Russia shuts down the ground stations, the local Russian GPS users - and anybody's cruise missiles flying in Russia - will not have enhanced accuracy.

Precision differential receivers are enough to allow a cruise missile with a conventional warhead to attack a hardened target, and destroy it with a "bullseye". Without the enhanced accuracy, you need either many conventional cruise missiles or one nuclear warhead.

[Pops]

This is pretty crazy sounding alright. But considering we are all so freaked out we're dribbling pee down our collective leg and we'd make Jack Bauer head of the CIA if he were real. We're so scared of our shadow we think it's prudent to listen in when Angela Merkel orders a pizza, ;o;. So I gotta believe that these stations can be turned off and the whole system jammed on a moment's notice.

In fact here ya go . . .

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Truck driver has GPS jammer, accidentally jams Newark airport
An engineering firm worker in New Jersey has a GPS jammer so his bosses don't know where he is all the time. However, his route takes him close to Newark airport, and his jammer affects its satellite systems.

[KaiserJeep]

I use GPS and love it on my off-road excursions in my Jeep. But,being untrusting of governments in general, I always buy paper maps and gazetteers.

The same comment could be made about cellphones, by the way. Did you note that cellphones are being used by rebels in China, the 'stans, the Arab states, Crimea, etc.?

Having an "off" switch in place for a cellphone has nothing what-so-ever to do with disabling the phone when stolen, and everything to do with disabling all cellphones in any given area except those used by various local, state, and federal governments.

[Lore]

This may affect civilian GPS more than military. How is the Ukrain going to find its way back in the arms of Russia if they do this?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ilitary (M-code)
A major component of the modernization process is a new military signal. Called the Military code, or M-code, it was designed to further improve the anti-jamming and secure access of the military GPS signals.

Very little has been published about this new, restricted code. It contains a PRN code of unknown length transmitted at 5.115 MHz. Unlike the P(Y)-code, the M-code is designed to be autonomous, meaning that a user can calculate their position using only the M-code signal. From the P(Y)-code's original design, users had to first lock onto the C/A code and then transfer the lock to the P(Y)-code. Later, direct-acquisition techniques were developed that allowed some users to operate autonomously with the P(Y)-code.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals

[Pops]

I kinda like this better
Голос 2 - Елена Максимова

[Newfie]

Yeah, I'm still kinda trying to figure out the big impact of this.

I mean, I kinda think the Ruskies will disable our GPS in times of tension, and I kinda doubt we are seriously contemplating sending a cruise missile onto their sovereign territory.

So, the REALL BIG DEAL is ?????

[dissident]

Naturally not a single peep about the fact the USA refuses to have even a single GLONASS station on its soil. Reciprocity is fair. Another propaganda fail by Six$.

[KaiserJeep]

Don't misunderstand me. A "cheap" cruise missile, perhaps a single-engine plane packed with high explosives, might use GPS. Disabling GPS enhanced accuracy is enough to defeat such a "cheap" cruise missile attack. Accuracy would degrade to +/- 125m or so.

REAL military grade hardware uses inertial navigation, and terrain recognition software. If the missile hugs the ground, it's hard to intercept, and not susceptible to jamming.

GPS jammers disable all the GPS receivers in the area, both regular and enhanced accuracy, by preventing them from acquiring satellite signals.

As for reciprocity, the GPS system is 25 years older than GLONASS and has 250X the number of users as GLONASS, and 200X the number of users as all other systems combined. GLONASS is pretty much used by the Russian military and airlines, but even Russian airlines have GPS receivers.

This is all about Russian paranoia. They want a navigation system that the US can not disable their access to. Which is unlikely to happen short of war, since if the "selective availability" feature is ever enabled, only the US Military can use the GPS system, even your family car and your cellphone and other mobile devices would not function.

The Russians have devoted a third of their space budget to reactivating the (neglected since the Cold War ended) GLONASS system since Putin came to office. BEIDOU/COMPASS is being expanded to worldwide coverage, it was only a regional Chinese system before.

Both countries either do not trust the US to retain space launch capability, or plan to have a War with us. But still, as the oldest system in use, GPS has 99+% of the users, and all other systems total less than 1%.

This is not a hobby with me, it's a former profession. In the military I was a LORAN-C specialist, and while in uniform in the early 1970's, the "NAVSAT" system rendered LORAN-C obsolete. We kept the LORAN-C system online until 2010, because it had secondary uses, but it's gone now.

[Sixstrings]

Russia just did a GLONASS satellite launch, and it blew up (I had this in the space station thread then realized it's GLONASS related):

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ocket Carrying Russia's Most Advanced Communications Satellite Crashes During Take Off
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-15/rocket-carrying-russias-most-advanced-communications-satellite-crashes-take

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', 'N')aturally not a single peep about the fact the USA refuses to have even a single GLONASS station on its soil. Reciprocity is fair. Another propaganda fail by Six$.

[Quinny]

It's in your original link. Do you not even read your own links?

[Newfie]

Q, now that's funny! Was it intentional?

Back on topic,

KJ..... Your post is technically correct, but how is it relevant?

What is the PRACTICAL impact of Russia's action?

[KaiserJeep]

If Russia deactivates the GPS differential ground stations inside their country, the GPS system accuracy declines from +/- 1.8m to +/- 125m, but only inside Russia. In the rest of the World, with intact ground stations, the GPS accuracy remains +/- 1.8m.

The present situation is ideal from the US standpoint, as we have a system that provides the precision navigation inside Russia, and they have no private system providing precision navigation within the USA.

So the exact situation today is that Russia is vulnerable to "cheap" aircraft-based cruise missiles today, along with every other country in the World. Being the system with the most users by far, the USA will be reluctant to deny access to all civilian users of GPS. (The lost delivery vans alone would snarl traffic, not to mention all the taxis.)

IMHO the USA should drag it's feet and prolong the existing situation as long as possible. It should be obvious to everyone that first Russia, then China, and finally the EU will eventually disable the GPS ground stations they have, denying terrorists the "first strike" capability of a cluster of "cheap" cruise missiles.

It should also be obvious that after the above changes come to pass, that the situation is reversed, and that the USA and other GPS users remain the only ones vulnerable to terrorist weapons guided by GPS. It is unlikely that the users of precision navigation features of GLONASS/COMPASS/GALILEO will ever include anybody except military users, since GPS already exists everywhere.

Take away thought: All of you who carry cellphones with GPS chips enabled, or iPADs, or Android tablets with such chips, are continuously leaving trails in NSA computer systems buried under the ground in certain secret locations throughout the US. Today, access to such locator data requires only a properly formatted request from another Federal Agency (or State or Local Law Enforcement). It is not impossible that in the future, such information would be available online to anyone who authorized a credit transaction. (This is why "burn" phones sell so well.)

Twenty years ago it would have been inconceivable that one could go online and buy access to real time satellite surveillance of anyone. Today that is easy and common, and even FREE through Google.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'I')t's in your original link. Do you not even read your own links?

[Pops]

Everyone is always getting ready for war, usually the last one.

Turn off every digital device you own and every one you work with and every one you depend on for every thing you do, have, eat, drink, buy ...

That is how the next war will be look, we don't need no stinkin cruise missiles.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'Q'), now that's funny! Was it intentional?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')MHO the USA should drag it's feet and prolong the existing situation as long as possible. It should be obvious to everyone that first Russia, then China, and finally the EU will eventually disable the GPS ground stations they have, denying terrorists the "first strike" capability of a cluster of "cheap" cruise missiles.

It should also be obvious that after the above changes come to pass, that the situation is reversed, and that the USA and other GPS users remain the only ones vulnerable to terrorist weapons guided by GPS.

[KaiserJeep]

It should be obvious that with the first strike still smoking, the selective availability feature will be activated and only the US military will have high precision navigation.

Otherwise the GPS system remains usable, with +/- 125m accuracy. That is all it had until May 2, 2000 anyway, when POTUS Clinton ordered "Selective Availability" turned off. The reduced accuracy was still usable for things like highway navigation, and was only questionable in tight urban environments.

Pending technical advances such as civilian aerial drones and driverless vehicles will cease to function, of course. But Russian, Chinese, and European Union civilians may be offered the option of high accuracy navigation via GLONASS/COMPASS/GALILEO. That decision is ultimately up to the countries that operate those systems, and probably depends on how secure they are.