[The_Virginian]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/science/earth/09amish.html?pagewanted=1


"But farmers like Mr. Stoltzfus are facing growing scrutiny for agricultural practices that the federal government sees as environmentally destructive. Their cows generate heaps of manure that easily washes into streams and flows onward into the Chesapeake Bay.

And the Environmental Protection Agency, charged by President Obama with restoring the bay to health, is determined to crack down. The farmers have a choice: change the way they farm or face stiff penalties.

“There’s much, much work that needs to be done, and I don’t think the full community understands,” said David McGuigan, the E.P.A. official leading an effort by the agency to change farming practices here in Lancaster County.

Runoff from manure and synthetic fertilizers has polluted the Chesapeake Bay for years, reducing oxygen rates, killing fish and creating a dead zone that has persisted since the 1970s despite off-and-on cleanup efforts. But of the dozens of counties that contribute to the deadly runoff of nitrogen and phosphorus, Lancaster ranks at the top. According to E.P.A. data from 2007, the most recent available, the county generates more than 61 million pounds of manure a year. That is 20 million pounds more than the next highest county on the list of bay polluters, and more than six times that of most other counties. "

(A version of this article appeared in print on June 9, 2010, on page A12 of the New York edition.) Copyright NYT 2010


Any thoughts on this?

[Keith_McClary]

The Amish People should have their own Homeland where they would be free of persecution.

How many cows fit in a "square acre" ?

[Olaf]

The Mennonites are buying up farmland around me. One primary concern I have had voiced to me is that they buy the property, using money lent from their church, then default on the loan, giving ownership to the church, and removing the property from the tax roll.

[dsula]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Olaf', 'T')he Mennonites are buying up farmland around me. One primary concern I have had voiced to me is that they buy the property, using money lent from their church, then default on the loan, giving ownership to the church, and removing the property from the tax roll.

[Olaf]

That was my initial question. My thought is that my Town and adjacent ones must have some sort of ability to NOT sell directly to the church (or at least stall and delay) and this is how they have worked around it.

Keep in mind this is from local chit chat, and not verified gossip.

[TreeFarmer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'T')he Amish People should have their own Homeland where they would be free of persecution.

How many cows fit in a "square acre" ?

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ix of the 19 wells sampled contained E. coli bacteria, and 16 had nitrate levels exceeding those allowed by the E.P.A.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ny thoughts on this?

[americandream]

We've a bunch of bonneted holy joes running a number of ag and regular businesses in my town. Apart from their holier than thou smugness, they don't strike me as particulary green in their grade of capitalistic avarice.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'I') would be willing to bet the vast majority of the pollution is coming from artificial fertilizers and not the limited amount of livestock being raised by the Amish.

[Olaf]

The article says they comprise 50% of the farms in that area.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut the focus on the plain-sect dairy farmers is unavoidable: they own more than 50 percent of Lancaster County’s 5,000-plus farms.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'I') would be willing to bet the vast majority of the pollution is coming from artificial fertilizers and not the limited amount of livestock being raised by the Amish.

[Pops]

Lancaster County raises - 45 million broiler chickens, 10 million laying hens, 95,000 dairy cows, 250,000 beef cattle, and 335,000 hogs annually.
--http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-Northeast/Lancaster-Economy.html

The county is 946 sq miles = 605k acres = .5 cow + .5 hogs + 90 chickens per acre, each and every acre of the county.

= lots of feed concentrates and lots of poop.

[Serial_Worrier]

I think it's despicable to go after the Amish who define sustainable living. Doesn't this board practicalyl worship that type of old-style living?

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'L')ancaster County raises - 45 million broiler chickens, 10 million laying hens, 95,000 dairy cows, 250,000 beef cattle, and 335,000 hogs annually.
--http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-Northeast/Lancaster-Economy.html

The county is 946 sq miles = 605k acres = .5 cow + .5 hogs + 90 chickens per acre, each and every acre of the county.

= lots of feed concentrates and lots of poop.

[Pops]

All I know is what's in the article, Tanada, from the original link:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut the focus on the plain-sect dairy farmers is unavoidable: they own more than 50 percent of Lancaster County’s 5,000-plus farms.

... Twenty-three of the farms were plain sect; 17 were found to be managing their manure inadequately.

[quadzillajim]

I think this is all bullshit

but...

The following tables indicates the CO2 production in kg CO2 equivalents per kg of meat depending on the animal:

1 kg of meat from
produces kg CO2e

beef 34.6
lamb 17.4
pork 6.35
chicken 4.57

[Gerben]

Sounds like bullshit. I don't know if Amish are allowed to use chemical fertilizers and antibiotics, but:
- if you don't use fertilizers, but do it the old-fashioned way, then nitrate from manure will not be a problem
- if you keep your cattle the old fashioned way then e-coli will be less of a problem and if you don't use antibiotics, then at least it will be easy to combat (will not be antibiotics resistant) if someone might conctract some kind of illness from them.
Perhaps the rules are wrong, but you cannot blame them for it.

[Pops]

Do you think those Amish ladies with their little paper caps go out to the pretty green fields and milk old Bessie on a 3-legged stool? When was the last time you walked through a holding pen with "only" 40 or 50 caws standing around crapping while waiting to be milked?

It is a mess even with a tractor to scrape after each milking, just goes to show how deluded people are about agriculture in any form.

Not so Quaint and .Gov foots the bill.

[The_Virginian]

Pops,

I think we all agree that Amish Manure is no better than our manure.

I think it's a matter of VOLUME:

http://www.farmsanctuary.org/mediacenter/assets/reports/smithfield3.pdf

http://cbs13.com/cbsnational/Sewage.upgrades.new.2.1727824.html

(Older Info. Basically how we got here)

"Throughout the watershed,
there are 6000 industrial sites, military bases, and
sewage treatment plants along the shores. Figure 1 il-
lustrates industrial facilities located throughout
Maryland that directly discharge wastewater to the
Bay and its tributaries.The National Oceanic and At-
mospheric Administration estimates that 20% of the
water entering the Bay at any one time is wastewater
from industry and sewage treatment (Davison et al.,
1997)."

http://www.jhsph.edu/clf/PDF_Files/Health_conf_linking.pdf


Seriously, it is doubtful to me that land based Amish based Manure is the major pollutant here.