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By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

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By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 17:07:27

The Independent

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..or at least that's what Ray Kurzweil thinks. He has spent his life inventing machines that help people, from the blind to dyslexics. Now, he believes we're on the brink of a new age – the 'singularity' – when mind-boggling technology will allow us to email each other toast, run as fast as Usain Bolt (for 15 minutes) – and even live forever. Is there sense to his science – or is the man who reasons that one day he'll bring his dad back from the grave just a mad professor peddling a nightmare vision of the future?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ollowing the publication of his 2005 book, The Singularity is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology, Kurzweil has become known, above all, as a technology speculator whose predictions have polarised opinion – from stone-cold scepticism and splenetic disagreement to dedicated hero worship and admiration. It's not just that he boldly envisions a tomorrow's world where, for example, tiny robots will reverse the effects of pollution, artificial intelligence will far outstrip (and supplement) biological human intelligence, and humankind "will be able to live indefinitely without ageing". No, the real reason Kurzweil has become such a magnet for blogospheric debate, and a tech-celebrity, is that he's convinced those future predictions – and many more just as stunning – are imminent occurrences. They will all, he steadfastly maintains, happen before the middle of the 21st century.

You know, I read Kurzweil and occasionally shake my head and laugh at how he insists that such far-out ideas are really quite close at hand But, I surely do agree that most people do not comprehend the enormity of the changes that are taking place right now in sci/tech.

It's been fascinating to follow both seemingly counter-poised trends: the frightening one of overpopulation, resource depletion, ecosystem destruction, etc., -- and the mind-blowing trend of scientific/technological advancement. They are related. I hear people scoff at this futuristic stuff. But I never see anyone ever make any predictions about when we might see the apex of sci/tech in the rear view mirror.

There are. I think, no fewer than four singularity films out this year; mostly due out in the last quarter. Transcendent Man is due out in November.
Last edited by Carlhole on Sun 27 Sep 2009, 21:14:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 17:38:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..Whereas Kelly differs from Kurzweil on the grounds of interpretation and tone, other voices of dispute are rooted in a deep-seated fear of technological calamity. "The form of opposition from fundamentalist humanists, and fundamentalist naturalists – that we should make no change to nature [or] to human beings – is directly contrary to the nature of human beings, because we are the species that goes beyond our limitations," counters Kurzweil. "And I think that's quite a destructive school of thought – you can show that hundreds of thousands of kids went blind in Africa due to the opposition to [genetically engineered] golden rice. The opposition to genetically modified organisms is just a blanket, reflexive opposition to the idea of changing nature. Nature, and the natural human condition, generates tremendous suffering. We have the means to overcome that, and we should deploy it."
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby hillsidedigger » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 18:40:44

By 2040, I guess that technology along with about everything else will crash or will have been burned in a big war.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 21:38:19

Henry Markham's Blue Brain Project

This is a video presentation of Dr. Markham giving a presentation on his supercomputing approach to reverse engineering the brain. It's pretty good.

I see no signs of science/technology slowing down one iota. If you think there's going to be some kind of collapse, make some sort of prediction as to when we'll see our science peak. Looks like clear blue sweet sailing for science in general. Lots, lots, lots going on. Incredible stuff.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby the48thronin » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 22:22:57

I'm a doomer, you can download my brain with a vic 20 over an acoustical modem in 30 seconds once you make connection. It will probably fit on one 30 minute casset.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 03:40:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arthur75', 'C')arlhole and his self hate childish junk, fascinating ...


The singularity is real, and unless we drop off into a Dark Age, it's inevitable.

But.. "uploading" one's brain is not immortality. All you're really doing is cloning yourself. The you that is you will still die, regardless of however many copies you may have made.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Arthur75 » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 03:52:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arthur75', 'C')arlhole and his self hate childish junk, fascinating ...


The singularity is real, and unless we drop off into a Dark Age, it's inevitable.

But.. "uploading" one's brain is not immortality. All you're really doing is cloning yourself. The you that is you will still die, regardless of however many copies you may have made.


No it's not, try to think about what are letters, symbols, words, for a while

And whether your brain has some not shared by others

The grand declarations of these failed "scientists" morons are just plainly laughable, they just suck

By the way, these people talk about 2040 ...
However I KNOW this will never happen, independently of the crisis
And whether this is good or bad is not the point, it is knowledge
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby NickyBoy » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 09:23:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arthur75', 'C')arlhole and his self hate childish junk, fascinating ...
The singularity is real, and unless we drop off into a Dark Age, it's inevitable. But.. "uploading" one's brain is not immortality. All you're really doing is cloning yourself. The you that is you will still die, regardless of however many copies you may have made.

Technically the me that is me dies every 7 years, as this is roughly how long it takes for evey atom in my body to be replaced as part of the natural functions that sustain cellular life.

The me that was alive 7 years ago is dead and I am just a copy :-D

I, for one, would be more than willing to undergo an upload/suicide combo.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Arthur75 » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 09:54:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')
What the hell is THAT supposed to mean? It's not "my stuff"; it was in The Independent... and there are four Singularity films out this year, numerous articles, etc.


So singularity is the new name of the messiah, that's what you mean ?

Didn't know that "academia" had swooped so low, we are in strange times indeed
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby lowem » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 10:29:49

This is so very Ghost-in-the-Shell-ish.

Now let's see some implementation :)
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 10:49:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I')'d say you are. Your religion is worshiping the white coats of today. You do have faith, right?


Oh, come on!...

I only post interesting articles, pose questions, and follow developments in certain ongoing stories. Look, films are being made about this stuff, books are being written, frequent conferences are being attended with enormous interest, robotics is taking off, machine intelligence is being re-invented...

These are things that are all happening here and now. You don't have to have any damn faith about it.

Science, in general - from quantum mechanics/ nanotechnology/bioengineering... -- is undergoing a lot of exploration and advancement. This race for knowledge and applied science seems like a basic component of human nature.

If you happen to be a firm believer in societal collapse, you have to be interested in the whole subject of sci/tech advancement - because it is a huge trend that is growing in exactly the opposite direction as societal collapse.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Arthur75 » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 11:31:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')
Did you forget to take your meds this morning? Or is it real greay in Paris this fall? Lighten up a little comrade, don't take it all so seriously; like Pops says "Tell us what you are doing?" Calhole is currently providing entertainment of a somewhat educational and humourous nature while you dear Sir are looking for a psychiatrist. (Mods; was that polite enough?)


No in fact we have a kind of Indian summer these days in Paris, hope it will last a bit !

I don't think these declarations (from the "scientists") are on the humorous side, more on the ignorant one.
Somehow the old story of fake "alchemist" now trying to bully under the science flag, when the beauty of real ones, like the Dogons for instance as listed by vision-master, is there.

It is more of an aesthetics position in fact, as well as somehow caring for the health of the information sphere more or less.

But of course these losers (I mean the "scientists") can do whatever they want, as long as they don't mind a little slap in the face here and there :)
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 12:16:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')hilst I get your drift Carl; it kinda depends if you want to have a long or short conversation about this very interesting thinking scientists thesis.


That was the whole point of the thread: if you think there will be some sort of societal collapse, certainly you won't see any hint of it in the sci/tech boom we currently are experiencing. CERN, ITER, NIF are all enormously expensive projects to solve some basic mysteries. Artificial Life forms are now being created for specific purposes - Joule BioTech is an example of this. It's an explosion of knowledge and advancement much of which has been enabled by vast and sophisticated computing power.

In the [quote="Carlhole"]Markham video, he begins by talking about whether studying the virtual reality of the brain was the same thing as studying the object itself. He concludes that the virtual copy of the brainr eally IS reality and that you can use his model to discover new things. This kind of science and a whole lot of other brilliant examples ALL have strong potential to change the world.

Who cares to predict when humanity will reach the zenith of scientific/technological progress? 'Cause it sure don't look like things is slowing down.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 12:34:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'N')ot sure if this is too cosmic?
I believe that the antimaterial is the causal sphere. If you can grasp that (?)

My first beliefs-guiding tenet is: There is no good reason to believe anything at all without adequate evidence.

Energy, Matter, Space and Time - These are the universe's physical dimensions within which all human thought and activities takes place. They are the boundaries of all human experience and knowledge. They comprise humanity's knowable realm.

Religions, whether they be mainstream Christianity or Satanism or Occultism or Scientology or any other belief system, posit that there exists a non-physical reality independent of Energy, Matter, Space and Time.

What's more, they posit that this non-physical reality is responsible for the creation of the Universe's fundamental attributes and that this non-physical reality is SUPREMELY MORE IMPORTANT than the reality that humans routinely experience. They assert that is the REAL reality and that the universe's physical dimensions as well as humanity's experience are mere shadows of this genuine reality - to which, presumably, we will return when we die. They assert that this posited, unproven, unknowable realm affects our lives in the present.

And they assert this without any proof whatsoever! If religions or practitioners of the occult could actually demonstrate the truth via a Scientific Method, reproducible by anyone, they would have done so long, long ago. But it always reduces to a matter of faith and personal belief - the science be damned.

This is why religions are so different from one another. They have no basis in reality actually - if they did, they would appear more similar. They are all simply human constructs; invented mythologies whose origins lie in tribal psychology and politics.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 13:03:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'N')ot sure if this is too cosmic?
I believe that the antimaterial is the causal sphere. If you can grasp that (?)

My first beliefs-guiding tenet is: There is no good reason to believe anything at all without adequate evidence.

Energy, Matter, Space and Time - These are the universe's physical dimensions within which all human thought and activities takes place. They are the boundaries of all human experience and knowledge. They comprise humanity's knowable realm.

Religions, whether they be mainstream Christianity or Satanism or Occultism or Scientology or any other belief system, posit that there exists a non-physical reality independent of Energy, Matter, Space and Time.

What's more, they posit that this non-physical reality is responsible for the creation of the Universe's fundamental attributes and that this non-physical reality is SUPREMELY MORE IMPORTANT than the reality that humans routinely experience. They assert that is the REAL reality and that the universe's physical dimensions as well as humanity's experience are mere shadows of this genuine reality - to which, presumably, we will return when we die. They assert that this posited, unproven, unknowable realm affects our lives in the present.

And they assert this without any proof whatsoever! If religions or practitioners of the occult could actually demonstrate the truth via a Scientific Method, reproducible by anyone, they would have done so long, long ago. But it always reduces to a matter of faith and personal belief - the science be damned.

This is why religions are so different from one another. They have no basis in reality actually - if they did, they would appear more similar. They are all simply human constructs; invented mythologies whose origins lie in tribal psychology and politics.


OK point taken; the propensity of humans to swallow hogwash is only paralelled by ....hogs.

Yet back to the science...

Anyone with a basic science education knows basic atomic theory.
All modern chemistry is based on this theory; it is widely taken as fact.
"At the core of each atom is a neutron proton cluster with a corresponing value to the atomic count and number of electrons bound in the atom."
Only when one looks deeper into it does one discover that this essential scientific dogma falls over if the nuetron "of a corresponding negative mass" has anything 'material' about it. They are nuetrons; they nutralise the mass of protons, allowing the encapture of electrons in a balanced sphere. If nuetrons have any "mass" they are not nuetrons in the pure sense of the word. Hence the vast amounts of work and capital invested in the science of "Nuetronic Mass". I believe it has recently been proven that nuetrons can be 'caught' (seen bouncing around) in a cup of platinum in a deep cave in France. So in fact it appears that the essential element does have a "material" core; operating at some extreme vibrational level.
The science of nuetrons is where the really quantum leaps will come from; if ever. "Nuetrons attract protons and electrons." Does this not qualify as causal? I'm not buying into anyones dogma.
My favorite teacher said "Invest in sincerity; promote intelligence."
Last edited by SeaGypsy on Mon 28 Sep 2009, 13:09:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 13:15:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arthur75', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2009/09/singularity-summit-2009-program/]Singularity Summit[/url] schedule:
lol, a vulgar Ad hom deleted. little gathering, sounds interesting ! :-D

About half of all AI research is done by the vulgar, ugly losers known as the military.
The military is all over this stuff because AI offers such incredible new potential for all sorts of weapons capabilities. It won't be too long before the Air Force fields a pilotless attack aircraft. They are already well advanced in the driverless humvee research and things like that - even if it's not quite ready for prime time (so far, to my knowledge).
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 17:23:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'H')ere's a picture of a flying machine from ancient Vadic Texts...
The sh*t you post has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of the thread.

The subject of the thread is that scientific advancement is racing ahead and showing NO signs of slowing due to peak oil or resource constraints. Society's scientific institutions and investments are stronger and more promising and than ever before.

If you think that there will be a societal collapse, make a prediction as to when we will reach the apex of our scientific exploration and achievement.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 28 Sep 2009, 18:26:00

Let's try this again without all the obnoxious diversions into idiotic nonsense:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/by-2040-you-will-be-able-to-upload-your-brain-1792555.html]The Independent[/url]

It's been fascinating to watch two seemingly counter-poised trends: (1) the frightening one of overpopulation, resource depletion, ecosystem destruction, etc., -- and, (2) the mind-blowing, apparently exponential trend of scientific/technological advancement.

They are related. I hear people scoff at this futuristic stuff. But I never see anyone ever make any predictions about when we might see the apex of sci/tech in the rear view mirror.


Anyone who thinks there will be some sort of civilizational collapse has GOT to be interested in the state of current science and the rate of scientific advancement. It sure looks like we are living in a sci/tech boom.

Lest you think the title of The Independent article is completely and utterly ridiculous, watch this short presentation:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://war-on-error.xanga.com/713106727/video-henry-markrams-blue-brain-project/]Henry Markham's Blue Brain Project[/url]

This is a video presentation of Dr. Markham giving a presentation on his supercomputing approach to reverse engineering the brain. It's pretty good.
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Arthur75 » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 03:13:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')
Henry Markham's Blue Brain Project

This is a video presentation of Dr. Markham giving a presentation on his supercomputing approach to reverse engineering the brain. It's pretty good.


Could only watch 20 seconds of it, this guy is your typical lazy moron. "we want to reverse engineer the brain", oh yeah ? Which one ?

Humans in general hate their own freedom, but this hate won't make it disappear


Not to mention that further to Gödel, this inherent freedom in progress could also somehow be considered a mathematical truth ! So that you just feel like laughing at these vulgar punks, or, that's true, sometimes feeling compassion for them. However a few slaps are also probably necessary, if not shooting a few of them against a wall (just for the fun of it, for waking them up, and for their disgusting ultra utilitarianist crime against knowledge progress).
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Re: By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain...

Unread postby Pretorian » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 07:45:59

so you upload your brain, and then what? Play chess with old buddies on yahoo games? Watch your body (grave?) in coma over a webcam? Would you keep any of the sences btw? What if it hurts/annoys to be in singularity? How singularity would be different, from immortality prospect, from old school cloning? How do u know it will be you and noit just an e-copy of you?
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