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The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby dukey » Tue 27 Jan 2009, 19:39:43

ie they will get their world currency/government

Image

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he article carried in The Economist, titled "Get Ready for the Phoenix," stated that, "THIRTY years from now, Americans, Japanese, Europeans, and people in many other rich countries, and some relatively poor ones will probably be paying for their shopping with the same currency."

The article went on to state that sovereignty will be lost with the advent of the new currency, but that trends towards globalization are already doing away with it anyway.

"The phoenix zone would impose tight constraints on national governments. There would be no such thing, for instance, as a national monetary policy. The world phoenix supply would be fixed by a new central bank, descended perhaps from the IMF. The world inflation rate - and hence, within narrow margins, each national inflation rate- would be in its charge. Each country could use taxes and public spending to offset temporary falls in demand, but it would have to borrow rather than print money to finance its budget deficit. With no recourse to the inflation tax, governments and their creditors would be forced to judge their borrowing and lending plans more carefully than they do today. This means a big loss of economic sovereignty, but the trends that make the phoenix so appealing are taking that sovereignty away in any case. Even in a world of more-or-less floating exchange rates, individual governments have seen their policy independence checked by an unfriendly outside world."
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby Micki » Tue 27 Jan 2009, 20:39:37

Gordon Brown asks us not to resist the New World Order.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]The economic crisis should be treated as "the difficult birth-pangs of a new global order", with new rules introduced on trade, Gordon Brown says.

The prime minister set out a series of actions designed to "replace fear with confidence" and warned against just "muddling through as pessimists".

During a speech defending his handling of the crisis he also warned against the "deglobalisation threat".
.
.
"Or we could view the threats and challenges we face today as the difficult birth-pangs of a new global order - and our task now as nothing less than making the transition through a new internationalism to the benefits of an expanding global society - not muddling through as pessimists but making the necessary adjustment to a better future and setting the new rules for this new global order."
.
.
But SNP spokesman Stewart Hosie described Mr Brown's comments as "meaningless rubbish" designed to deflect criticism from the prime minister.

"Gordon Brown might be better answering why he allowed a credit bubble during his tenure as chancellor or why debt levels were so high that the recession can now only be fought by doubling the national debt to over £1 trillion," he said.

BBC


Edited: Oops hos stressed am I not noticing I am duplicating the original post. I am hanging my head in embaressment.
Last edited by Micki on Wed 28 Jan 2009, 09:20:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby mattduke » Tue 27 Jan 2009, 21:00:49

The most revolutionary thing you can do is buy physical gold.
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby Revi » Tue 27 Jan 2009, 21:04:37

The difficult birth pangs of a new global depression, more likely.

We are all going to have to learn to live with less. A lot less.

It might be the birth of a green future.
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 27 Jan 2009, 21:37:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he economic crisis should be treated as "the difficult birth-pangs of a new global order", with new rules introduced on trade, Gordon Brown says.


British politicians flabbergast me. They come out with things that would get a pol crucified here in the States, lol.

Goodness, can you imagine the right-wing uproar if Obama said something like that?
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 27 Jan 2009, 22:54:23

George HW Bush said the words "new world order". Since then I'd like to think american politicians are a little more careful not to feed the tinfoilers. Kind of like uttering the words "final solution". These phrases could mean lots of things, but to some people, mean only ONE thing no matter what the original context.
Last edited by mos6507 on Wed 28 Jan 2009, 10:30:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby Micki » Tue 27 Jan 2009, 23:22:39

Absolutely correct. (Wow, is that the first or second time time I agree with you MOS?)
Just like illuminati symbolism in logo's doesn't have to do anything with illuminati. Some people might just like pyramids, eye's etc. or they think it is suitable to their line of business.
And much of what ever agenda there is is implemented secretly with little fanfare.
Despite that I think it is good that the alarm bells are going off as it keeps people on their toes. You know; the price of freedom is eternal vigilance....
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby EndOfGrowth » Wed 28 Jan 2009, 08:18:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'A')bsolutely correct. (Wow, is that the first or second time time I agree with you MOS?)
Just like illuminati symbolism in logo's doesn't have to do anything with illuminati. Some people might just like pyramids, eye's etc. or they think it is suitable to their line of business.
And much of what ever agenda there is is implemented secretly with little fanfare.
Despite that I think it is good that the alarm bells are going off as it keeps people on their toes. You know; the price of freedom is eternal vigilance....



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http://www.loomis.com/en/gbr/


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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby paimei01 » Wed 28 Jan 2009, 10:10:07

So we will have a world central bank. That will be so good to create money for us, and lend them to our governments.

Then governments can't pay , higher taxes, economy falls, the central bank ends up owning the Earth. The bankers already own the Earth, they just need to make sure they have the paperwork in order.

Then what ? pay for our existence ? "You are in debt, forever, we know you have no money, we create money, so we know you have no other place to get them. But look you can work for us !". This is what they will say, but first they will leave the people to just die, even helping the dieoff. Just too many people. They don't need so many.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')“One does not sell the earth upon which the people walk.”
Crazy Horse

WTF did he mean ? Was Crazy Horse talking about "roads" maybe ? Crazy indian !
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby outcast » Wed 28 Jan 2009, 11:19:30

That Economist article, even though it is 21 years old, does bring up some good points.


Honestly, at this point I can vaguely see a one world currency eventually coming out of this mess. With our financial system insolvent and our government up to it's neck in debt (with colossal amounts being added everyday) I doubt the dollar can hold on to it's status as THE world's reserve currency.
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Re: The difficult birth-pangs of a new global order

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 28 Jan 2009, 14:38:16

The pyramid and eye is everywhere. It's a masonic symbol (as well as many other things).

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$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndOfGrowth', '
')Like these guys
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http://www.loomis.com/en/gbr/
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Global Crisis Gives Birth To New Era

Unread postby deMolay » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 11:00:43

National Post

Peter Goodspeed, National Post, Friday, March 13, 2009:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat began as a reversal of the real estate market in the United States has spun out of control with extraordinary global implications.
The world's financial and banking systems have had a near meltdown; entire economies have been swamped; trillions of dollars worth of assets have evaporated; and millions of people from Windsor to Wuhan have lost their jobs. Governments have collapsed, tent cities have sprung up for foreclosed families, senior executives now work as janitors, once-mighty financial institutions have been humbled, investors devastated, consumers terrified and governments bewildered.
Financial analysts are confused and uncertain about what is happening. Yesterday was actually a good day. The Dow Jones ended up 9% on the week, the TSX was up 9.3% - it was the best performance for North American markets since November.
But, when you step back from the daily rash of economic news, you can see the current economic crisis is giving birth to a new perilous era. An era of protectionism, failed states and new wars. An era that has such diverse consequences as dealing a blow to Scottish nationalism, hampering al-Qaeda buying weapons and causing the deaths of millions of children.
"This crisis is the first truly universal one in the history of humanity," Michel Camdessus, a former managing director of the International Monetary Fund, told an Asian Development Bank forum in Manila this week.
"No country escapes from it. It has not yet bottomed out."
When finance ministers and central bankers from 20 countries arrive today by helicopter at a grand old British country house hotel set in the rolling woodlands of West Sussex, they will seek to rebuild the world's economic system.
Under intense security and surrounded by the opulence of a luxury resort that boasts 260 varieties of rhododendrons, camellias and azaleas in its gardens, officials from the Group of 20 industrialized and developing countries will try to extinguish the most virulent economic crisis since the Great Depression.
Some observers compare this weekend's meeting at the South Lodge Hotel, just outside the tiny village of Lower Beeding, to the Bretton Woods summit of July, 1944, when delegates from 44 Allied nations got together in New Hampshire, to reshape the world's post-Second World War economy.
The simple fact it is the G20, not the Group of Eight, that is trying to resolve the crisis acknowledges the change that has rocked the world. For the first time, some of the fastest-growing and emerging market economies - not just the United States, Canada, Japan and Europe - have seats at the table.
"The old days of the G8 are gone," says Jim Fisher, vice-dean of the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto. "The G8 sort of feels like the York Club or something - a place where you go and see everybody who used to be powerful having lunch together."
The rules of the game have changed and the most basic questions of world politics are open for debate.
The economic crisis is transforming, or at least challenging, everything, from U.S.-China relations to the unity of the European Union. It has shattered faith in economic liberalism that served as the political and economic model for much of the world for the past 30 years - and there is no obvious alternative waiting in the wings.
Even something as wistful as talk of Scottish independence has been transformed by the crisis. Dreams of using Scotland's oil wealth, to create an "arc of prosperity" from Scotland to Iceland and Scandinavia now sound like a nightmare, with Iceland wallowing in bankruptcy and the Royal Bank of Scotland, formerly the world's fifth-largest bank, registering the biggest loss - US$39-billion - in British history.
"The crisis may be changing, in a fundamental manner, the global geopolitical landscape," Shyam Saran, India's former foreign minister, said recently in a lecture in New Delhi.
"The Western dominance of the global financial markets and the global economy as a whole has been shaken to the core. It is possible that New York and London may no longer regain their undisputed status as the central financial markets of the world."
Developing countries are openly questioning the magic of the marketplace, but the biggest fear remains a backlash against globalization.
Welfare for Wall Street and rapidly rising unemployment figures make it difficult to argue the world should not turn its back on free trade.
"The fact is protectionism is creeping in," says Colin Robertson, a Canadian career diplomat who just completed a major Canada-U.S. research project for Carleton University's Norman Paterson School of International Affairs. "What, after all, is a bailout? This already contravenes the agreed-upon rules. Subsidy will become the new tariff."
"We are going to go back before we go forward," agrees Mr. Fisher. "Right now people are going to protect themselves. The near-term inclination will definitely be to put your arms up and say, ‘No. We have to keep jobs at home.' It is natural and inevitable, but I don't think it will be sustainable.
"Eventually, we will see there were enormous benefits for everyone in the world when we had global trade. When you look at it, you see the last 20 years as years of outsourcing and off-shoring in North America, and yet employment stayed high and productivity grew and our standard of living grew. And you also had these two huge population areas of the world [China and India] which moved hundreds of millions of people from poverty to become consumers. The total world impact of all this globalism in world trade was just so profoundly positive."
It may be too early to determine the long-term global consequences of the economic crisis, but you can still glimpse some ramifications before the dust settles.
There may be more failed and failing states and more radical movements in a world littered with new conflict zones.
Economic collapses have already touched Brazil, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Pakistan, Russia, the Baltic republics and Central Asia.
Anger has spilled out onto the streets of Europe, with anti-government riots in Lithuania, Bulgaria, Latvia and Greece.
There was a rash of wildcat strikes in Britain by workers who claimed they were denied construction jobs by contractors who used cheaper foreign workers. If unemployment continues to rise, France fears a return to burned-out cars, masked youths and arson attacks in its industrial suburbs.
Even the Taliban and al-Qaeda are affected.
Last week a Turkish group, Seyfulkahar al-Muhaciri, that recruits fighters and supports the Taliban, complained on its Web site the global economic crisis has harmed its fundraising, driving down donations, just as the costs of ammunition and weapons are skyrocketing on the black market.
In a world that has never before been so interdependent, the global economic crisis now threatens to become a social crisis in many countries.
The pace of decline has been breathtaking.
The U.S. economy has lost 3.2% of its jobs – 4.4 million – since December, 2007, and unemployment has reached its highest level in a quarter-century. Figures for Canada released yesterday show unemployment rose to 7.7% in February (from 7.2% in January) and analysts expect it to exceed 10% before year end.
This week, the Asian Development Bank published a report that estimates the value of global financial assets, including stocks, bonds and currencies, fell by more than US $5-trillion in 2008. That is almost equivalent to a year's worth of the entire world's gross domestic product.
"The loss of financial wealth is enormous, and the consequences for the economies of the world will unfortunately be commensurate," said Claudio Loser, a former IMF director and author of the report.
Meanwhile, the World Bank predicts the global economy is likely to shrink for the first time since the Second World War and the International Labour Organization estimates 50 million jobs may be lost globally.
Hardest hit are the poor.
The IMF estimates the global economic crisis will cost developing countries at least $1-trillion in lost growth.
Tighter credit conditions and weaker growth will cut government revenues, severely limiting the developing world's ability to invest in education or health care.
Companies, consumers and countries will struggle to pay off loans and developing nations will be unable to adopt stimulus packages to prod their economies toward recovery.
Meanwhile, they will be further ravaged by slumps in commodity prices, caused by worldwide production cutbacks.
The World Bank estimates 53 million people will be pushed back into poverty, joining up to 155 million who now live on less than US $2 a day.
Even more chilling is a World Bank prediction that 2.8 million children will die between now and 2015, as infant mortality rates soar because of the economic crisis.
"Social costs on this scale should raise serious concerns about political stability in the most affected countries," says Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the IMF's managing director.
The IMF says it already needs to double its lending capacity to US$500-billion to prevent the collapse of 16 developing countries, including Pakistan, an unstable, nuclear-armed regional superpower that is already under attack by Islamist extremists. And the World Bank is calling for developed countries to pledge 0.7% of their stimulus spending to create a special "vulnerability fund" to assist poorer countries.
"After hitting the industrial countries and then emerging markets, a third wave of the global financial crisis is now hitting the world's poorest and most vulnerable countries, and hitting them hard," warns Mr. Strauss-Kahn.
In its wake, the world crisis is leaving frightened, confused and angry people in every corner.
"Economic dislocation always has political consequences, and global crises have geopolitical consequences," says Ron Smith, professor of applied economics, at the University of London.
"The initial collateral damage from the credit crunch includes faith in free markets. [But] the political centre of gravity could shift as more conservative politicians are displaced or reverse their policy on state intervention."
The very way the world does business is being transformed.
Fading industries, like North America's automakers, are being pushed to the brink of extinction, while key sectors in manufacturing, financial services and retail are struggling with massive layoffs that may forever change the face of the labour force. Older workers are likely to be hit hardest, forcing earlier-than-planned retirements, and reducing overall productivity and earnings.
"The coming recession might well mark the beginning of an era of permanently higher taxes and slower economic growth in rich countries. And it will hasten a fiscal crisis in entitlement programs," predicts Jagadeesh Gokhale, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute.
Even the sense of solidarity within the European Union - between east and west, rich and poor, new and old - is under strain
"I'm convinced Eastern Europe is the canary in the mine," says Mr. Robertson. "You have to remember we basically fought two World Wars and a Cold War to try and reintegrate them back into Europe. Yet they are in pretty desperate shape and I don't see Old Europe coming to the aid of New Europe."
"New Europe is very fragile. It is not quite 20 years old. We had a full spring in the interwar period (1918-1939) which didn't last much longer either," he adds.
Now that the United States has had its sense of strength and invulnerability shaken, we may also be heading for a more diffused and diversified international order.
"Much of the rest of the world sees the current global financial crisis simultaneously as: a) America's fault; b) a very big deal and c) worthy of a rethinking of the basic assumptions of U.S.-style capitalism. But the United States doesn't appear to recognize how much anger and blame is being cast its way," says Douglas Rediker, a former investment banker who is now director of the Global Strategic Finance Initiative at the New America Foundation in Washington.
"The financial crisis created an ideological deficit, where even our closest allies in Europe, not to mention other countries with whom our relationship is more complex, like Russia, China and the Gulf states, are re-thinking the balance between social values and market-based economies" he adds.
"[It has] opened the door for others to question not only whether the United States is up to the task of driving and policing the world's financial systems. Perhaps it also extends to a broader question about U.S. leadership, international alliances and the world order."
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sun 15 Mar 2009, 11:28:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Global Crisis Gives Birth To New Era

Unread postby virgincrude » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 12:58:39

Hmmm. Standard comments from the Usual Suspects, it seems to me. We've had it drummed into us in no uncertain terms that This Is It, Bigger than The Great Depression, Deeper than the Deepest Recession, etc., Absolutely nothing new in this article, 'cept that it reinforces, if that were possible, the degree of contempt and disgust one feels for figures such as Dominique Strauss Khan, Michel Camdesus, bankers, diplomats and the professional Talking Heads, all of whom are now running around like chickens with their heads chopped off reading from a prepared script that says: "No one could see it coming, it's unprecedented, we don't have the answers, but everybody's going to suffer. A lot."

So what's this great New Era we're supposed to see on the horizon according to this and thousands of article like it?: resource, wars, protectionism, the starved starving a little bit more etc., it's actually the worst possile indictment of what this article would have us believe was the most fantastic period of moving "millions of people from poverty to become consumers. The total world impact of all this globalism in world trade was just so profoundly positive." What was actually true was that the poor became more poor, resources were plundered in a way which puts the word savage into a new light, terrorism and fundamentalsim took hold in ways which now make them endemic practically world wide, in short, the world became a place where the 2% ruled the rest of us and told us how much better off we were for the pleasure of access to broad band, cable and Wii, air-con, SUVs, etc., It's all arse-wards. And now the whole criminal house of cards, the whole global Ponzi scheme has been exposed for what it is, we're supposed to look to the same ass-wipes who put us in this situation, to put Humpty Dumpty back together again and pretend things can carry on as before ...?

That's the New Era: more people than ever before can see the whole construct was false, it's the end of politics as we know it, the end of everything as we know it. Or at least, that's what we're being told. And that these same two dimensional creatures in their business suits can sort it all out for us and make it better .... is that what we want?
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Re: Global Crisis Gives Birth To New Era

Unread postby efarmer » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 13:38:48

When greed takes over a civilization almost completely
and it seeps down to where most of the common folk start
to believe they are "part of something that is too big to fail" you are
damn near guaranteed a spectacular crash and burn ending.

Likewise, the only way to save any face in one of these lemming
carnival events is to quickly build a liar's consensus that what took
place was a natural disaster, like a tornado, hurricane, or an
earthquake. I.E. impossible to predict or guard against.

The liars have to then pick someone responsible for the almost
miraculous recovery from the "natural disaster" and destroy them
if things are not restored back to "normal" in short order.


Blow a bubble while you fill up like a tick, lament the shameless
tragedy of being a victim of cosmic fate, appoint a savior,
destroy the savior as being inept, and purse your lips to
blow into the next bubble. Rinse and repeat.

This is not a New Era unless we do something new with the lemmings
we have left and the few at the bottom of the cliff that landed on so
many others that they didn't get hurt.
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Re: Global Crisis Gives Birth To New Era

Unread postby deMolay » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 14:07:10

What I got from it is that we are witnessing some history. We are about to see the fall of one empire and either the rise of another or complete chaos. I think we are going to enter the chaos model. I think that with so many failed states some close to home as in Mexico, we will be entering a new era. One in which the USA will no longer be the world's policeman. At least not as we have seen up till now. The cost of projecting power for a broke nation heavily in debt is just too great. The USA will withdraw maybe back to pre President Wilson levels.
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Re: Global Crisis Gives Birth To New Era

Unread postby Uranian22 » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 14:46:33

Is this the Age of Culmination?
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Re: Global Crisis Gives Birth To New Era

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 14:55:40

A bit dramatic. For example, I find this pretty hard to believe:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 's')enior executives now work as janitors


Executive and marketing types not working, drawing unemployment and living off previous years' bonuses I can believe -- but working as janitors? Not likely.
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Re: Global Crisis Gives Birth To New Era

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 15:02:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Uranian22', 'I')s this the Age of Culmination?


Age of Culmination? Do you mean that this is equivalent to the US (world) being a climax forest stage? We have grown to our utmost and now must die back?
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Re: Global Crisis Gives Birth To New Era

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 15:17:39

The interesting tidbit in here is that apparently Al-Quaeda is (sadly) running out of money for bullets :-( Some bankster better loan them some money or we won't have anybody to have a War with here! How can we reboot the economy without a good war?

Oh yea, I forgot, the Chinese still have money so we can have at it with them when Al-Quaeda runs short in their bank account.

Anyhow, I'm not sure we are in a New Era here YET. We are witnessing the Death of the Old Era to be sure, but the New Era hasn't really taken shape yet. We still haven't arrived at complete collapse of all these Nation States yet, and we are still creeping along running the engine on Toilet Paper. Its still not clear exactly how the New Era is going to shape up, other than a lot of death and destruction.

The suits at the G20 are just pathetic these days, they are utterly clueless and nothing at all comes out of these round tables that addresses the problems. They don't have any other idea besides to print more money. The New Era I think has to wait until they run out of ink.

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