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Setting the ground works for the next target

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Setting the ground works for the next target

Unread postby maverickdoc » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 17:55:03

Afghanistan ....done
Iraq ...............done
Iran ...............Next
Venezuela ......After Iran

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')racking down on Caracas

While we have our eyes on the Middle East and the recent good news out of there, a danger to democracy is brewing right here in our backyard. Venezuela, long one of Latin America's strongest democracies, is now under siege by its president, Hugo Chavez. Thanks to an ill-judged intervention by former President Jimmy Carter, Chavez narrowly survived a recall election and has now accelerated his subversion of Venezuela's democracy by a scummy deal with Fidel Castro.


http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/0502 ... 14edit.htm


Maybe Matt Savinar was right after all
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Unread postby Jack » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 18:03:26

So are you suggesting that the Venezuelan people yearn for freedom and democracy? 8)
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Unread postby maverickdoc » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 18:49:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'S')o are you suggesting that the Venezuelan people yearn for freedom and democracy? 8)



Syria just might have moved up a few spots after today’s Lebanon bombing.
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Unread postby maverickdoc » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 21:04:58

I don't know if syria has any oil. does any body know?
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Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 22:02:21

oceania has always been at war with eurasia
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Unread postby Kingcoal » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 23:07:36

Venezuela ......Before Iran

I believe the idea is to have a newly independent and armed Iraq "liberate" the rest of the middle east. Venezuela, however is really becoming a problem. They want to "liberate" their neighbors in South America and the US can't have that. This country also is a major supplier to the US oil market.
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Unread postby maverickdoc » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 23:12:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'V')enezuela ......Before Iran

I believe the idea is to have a newly independent and armed Iraq "liberate" the rest of the middle east. Venezuela, however is really becoming a problem. They want to "liberate" their neighbors in South America and the US can't have that. This country also is a major supplier to the US oil market.


Venezuela, militarily or with covert means? Iran has to be dealt with soon (before 2006)
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Unread postby Grimnir » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 03:14:16

So in the peak oil paradigm, what is the rationale for attacking Syria? Ports on the Mediterranean? Are there any pipelines running between there and Iraq?
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Unread postby stu » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 14:52:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grimnir', 'S')o in the peak oil paradigm, what is the rationale for attacking Syria? Ports on the Mediterranean? Are there any pipelines running between there and Iraq?


It's all part of a plan to democratise the Middle East.

Surely you've noticed with Iraq, Afghanistan, the Pressure on Iran, the elections in Saudi Arabia, the recent new hope in the Israel/Palestine conflict and now the present pressure on Syria following the Beirut bomb.

The winds of change are really starting to blow in the Middle East.

The problem is of course is that I believe that the change in this region will be very painful and you will see a Middle East war break out.

The extremists will see that democracy= capitalism=consumerism=fall in religion. That is what has happened mostly in the West-the Deep South being the exception.

So in trying to defend Islam I think you will see the rise and rise of Al-Qaeda as America tries to force it's ideology on the ME.
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Unread postby maverickdoc » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 15:00:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stu', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grimnir', 'S')o in the peak oil paradigm, what is the rationale for attacking Syria? Ports on the Mediterranean? Are there any pipelines running between there and Iraq?


It's all part of a plan to democratise the Middle East.

Surely you've noticed with Iraq, Afghanistan, the Pressure on Iran, the elections in Saudi Arabia, the recent new hope in the Israel/Palestine conflict and now the present pressure on Syria following the Beirut bomb.

The winds of change are really starting to blow in the Middle East.

The problem is of course is that I believe that the change in this region will be very painful and you will see a Middle East war break out.

The extremists will see that democracy= capitalism=consumerism=fall in religion. That is what has happened mostly in the West-the Deep South being the exception.

So in trying to defend Islam I think you will see the rise and rise of Al-Qaeda as America tries to force it's ideology on the ME.


Democracy has nothing to do with it. Nor does Islam. They need a conduit to build a pipeline for Iraqi/ Kuwaiti to by pass the straight of hormuz, went they attack Iran the hormuz will be blocked. Also This will remove one more obstacle for Israel, Syria hosts hamas and Hezbollah
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Unread postby stu » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 15:15:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('maverickdoc', ' ')They need a conduit to build a pipeline for Iraqi/ Kuwaiti to by pass the straight of hormuz, went they attack Iran the hormuz will be blocked.


I doubt that.

First you have to eliminate or pacify the Syrian government.

Then you have to hope that their population will not attack occupation forces or overthrow their new Pro-USA leader depending on which above scenario happens.

Then you have to build the pipeline through and hope that does not get attacked. Also you have to consider is it possible that all the oil that is transported through the Straits can be transported through one pipeline.

Meanwhile Iran will take a few more steps to building the bomb seeing the Americans distracted with Syria.
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Unread postby maverickdoc » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 15:18:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stu', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('maverickdoc', ' ')They need a conduit to build a pipeline for Iraqi/ Kuwaiti to by pass the straight of hormuz, went they attack Iran the hormuz will be blocked.


I doubt that.

First you have to eliminate or pacify the Syrian government.

Then you have to hope that their population will not attack occupation forces or overthrow their new Pro-USA leader depending on which above scenario happens.

Then you have to build the pipeline through and hope that does not get attacked. Also you have to consider is it possible that all the oil that is transported through the Straits can be transported through one pipeline.

Meanwhile Iran will take a few more steps to building the bomb seeing the Americans distracted with Syria.


How about if Syria agrees on it's own to let us build the pipeline. Under the threat of sanctions or attack? what if we get regime change?
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Unread postby stu » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 15:33:57

I think that will take a sea change in Syrian policy for that to happen.

Considering that they have a big say in Lebanon by having their troops there and are supporters of Hezbollah it would take some serious pressure for them to change their atttitude. They also are getting the backing of the Russians.

http://english.people.com.cn/200501/26/ ... 71963.html

I think it will take military action to depose the government and that will just inflame the situation.

It saddens me to say it but each month sees events that are pushing the world towards another war. The latest example was the assassination of Hariri. If you look at the attitude of countries such as Russia, China, Venezuela, Iran etc...you can see an alliance forming.

To me it looks like the the tide could be about to turn against American domination of the world.
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Unread postby threadbear » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 15:43:36

The US is playing a very touchy international game if they move on Venezuela. They best think long and hard before they do anything of the sort. The best they can do is use Colombia as a proxy to try to achieve their goals. It could backfire on them. They might end up strengthening Chavez more in any attempt to destabilize that country. I note that Condalizard has been sprung from her terrarium and is actually sounding much more conciliatory with Korea. Is it any wonder countries want nukes for defensive purposes?
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Unread postby maverickdoc » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 22:01:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stu', '
')To me it looks like the the tide could be about to turn against American domination of the world.


Can you explain? Besides war games not much is happening.

Why are the brits so against adopting the euro?
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Unread postby Free » Wed 16 Feb 2005, 00:27:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')he US is playing a very touchy international game if they move on Venezuela. They best think long and hard before they do anything of the sort. The best they can do is use Colombia as a proxy to try to achieve their goals. It could backfire on them. They might end up strengthening Chavez more in any attempt to destabilize that country. I note that Condalizard has been sprung from her terrarium and is actually sounding much more conciliatory with Korea. Is it any wonder countries want nukes for defensive purposes?


Yes, actually nukes are the ONLY insurance against US-"liberation". Any responsible leader of a country which has interesting ressources and wants to defend the souvereignity of the state has to consider getting nukes as fast as possible, but also as quietly as possible.

Probably the best Iran can do is try to gain time for their nuke-program, (or to buy the bomb from somewhere fast), as long as the US are bogged down in Iraq. In fact that's what they are doing, playing for time. As long as direct attacks on nuclear sites are not viable US/Israel can do nothing, sanctions would take too long to weaken the country considerably, and wouldnt stop the nuclear build-up. And the risk of a defeat is just too big to risk an attack now. Iran has the better cards at the moment, regarding the nukes, and they know it. And once they have nukes, the world community has to acknowledge the fact, as it did with Pakistan and will do with North-Korea. Once you are in the club, you are safe.

Regarding Venezuela I still think they are the weakest link. Everything fits in there, the US has even strong oppositional forces within the country on whom they can rely, plus colombia, plus it's in the backyard, plus the country is not backed by anyone really. Thats why I think that Venezuela will be next, and Syria.
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Unread postby stu » Wed 16 Feb 2005, 07:33:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('maverickdoc', '
')
Can you explain? Besides war games not much is happening.


I think this article describes it quite well.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 1Dj02.html

The current leadership of the USA has made it so unpopular and I just feel that some important countries of the world are slowly but surely moving away from the influence of the United States.

The Middle East- This is probably the number one region that hates the USA. Given their massive support for the Israelis and the recent invasion of Iraq.

South America- As this link shows a lot of the countries are run by left leaning socialist governments, Hugo Chavez being the most prominent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3975663.stm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat the winners of recent elections in Uruguay, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina and Ecuador do have in common is a clear rejection of American-supported free-market policies often backed by incumbent governments.



Former Soviet Union- Following all the Pro-western candidates that are winning elections in key states such as Georgia and Ukraine, Russia appears to be increasing it's stance against America by relying less on the dollar and striving for links with countries that are very anti-American such as Iran and Venezuela. the influence of America on Russia's doorstep can only increase the animosity between the two countries.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Why are the brits so against adopting the euro?


Thats an issue for a totally new thread which I think I'll start.
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Unread postby fred2 » Wed 16 Feb 2005, 17:04:02

I cant help but wonder just exactly who was behind the recent assassination thats focussed attention on Syria. CIA?
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Unread postby maverickdoc » Wed 16 Feb 2005, 18:30:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('fred2', 'I') cant help but wonder just exactly who was behind the recent assassination thats focussed attention on Syria. CIA?


When you can't answer a question like that you ask yourself. Who would have to gain from this? (what’s the motivation).


http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-02-16-voa33.cfm

will answer some questions
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Unread postby Jack » Wed 16 Feb 2005, 22:43:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stu', 'I') think that will take a sea change in Syrian policy for that to happen.

Considering that they have a big say in Lebanon by having their troops there and are supporters of Hezbollah it would take some serious pressure for them to change their atttitude. They also are getting the backing of the Russians.


So, Stu, are you psychic? 8)
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