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Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 22:49:08

True story. The NS and CSX mainlines run right behind my house. I was parking my car in the alley which parallels the tracks and saw a man doing something weird. He was using his coat to pull down the communication wires to cut them for the copper. He had a hand full.

The CSX police rep said this was happening all over their system and messing up their signaling for the trains. The 4 tracks behind my house serve sometimes up to 100 trains per day. Fortunately, the NS is the busies user of these tracks and their lines are underground.

My neighbor, who works for the CSX, joked with me, "another example of PO times". However, he wasn't joking about run a train on tracks without the signal system working and knowing it was people cutting the communication lines.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 23:23:08

Q: "So, dude, what did you do today"

A: "Today? I stole a railroad"
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 23:30:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', 'G')ood point, MyOldTDiIsStillGoing. Metal thieves are now also stripping copper wiring that is used for train signal lights and crossings. 8O


Stop, Look, Listen.

Remember to look both ways before crossing.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby lawnchair » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 23:32:54

And, as if running catenary for railroad electrification isn't expensive enough, this behavior could pretty well end that otherwise-logical path.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby Schneider » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 23:33:53

From the Middle-East/Africa to America..

Wasn't it speculated a few years ago that we would see a kind of "collapse" because scavenging and stealing of the main infrastructures for metal !?? If i remember well, it was speculated that it would make any smooth transition mostly impossible..
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby americandream » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 23:35:08

Free enterprise. Ya gotta love it.

:)
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby cube » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 23:54:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'A')nd, as if running catenary for railroad electrification isn't expensive enough, this behavior could pretty well end that otherwise-logical path.
Catenary line / electrified line is usually reserved for passenger trains which run much more frequently like at least a couple times a day. A metal thieve wouldn't have enough time to do his "handy work" in such a scenario.

I'm quite sure the government will very quickly beef up the laws to make the penalties so "severe", nobody will entertain the thought again. For example look at our tax laws. Is there anyone out there stupid enough to not pay their taxes?
//
How come I don't hear about metal thieves in China? With average incomes of only $300/month people should be ripping the bolts out of the ground but I have yet to hear one story coming out of China....
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 00:06:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'A')nd, as if running catenary for railroad electrification isn't expensive enough, this behavior could pretty well end that otherwise-logical path.
Catenary line / electrified line is usually reserved for passenger trains which run much more frequently like at least a couple times a day. A metal thieve wouldn't have enough time to do his "handy work" in such a scenario.

I'm quite sure the government will very quickly beef up the laws to make the penalties so "severe", nobody will entertain the thought again. For example look at our tax laws. Is there anyone out there stupid enough to not pay their taxes?


Have you been to Europe? It is almost all electric system even the freight locomotives use the overhead lines in many areas.

Easy target at night when most of the passenger service is idled in Europe except for a few night intercity trains. And the track lines are very open in Europe so access is easy.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby lawnchair » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 00:34:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')How come I don't hear about metal thieves in China? With average incomes of only $300/month people should be ripping the bolts out of the ground but I have yet to hear one story coming out of China....


The manhole cover thing started in China, four years ago. BBC story. Either it's worse now (possibly under-reported by state media), or TPTB have gotten a lot more scary.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby neocone » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 01:59:17

In the future and a world of billions of (excess) people... Life will be disposable just as it is in overpopulated China.

Whoever is caught stealing steel is bound for 10 years of forced labor building railway tracks...

A pretty good deal for all of us if you ask me :-)
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby cube » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 03:59:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')How come I don't hear about metal thieves in China? With average incomes of only $300/month people should be ripping the bolts out of the ground but I have yet to hear one story coming out of China....


The manhole cover thing started in China, four years ago. BBC story. Either it's worse now (possibly under-reported by state media), or TPTB have gotten a lot more scary.

8O
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 04:21:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'F')or example look at our tax laws. Is there anyone out there stupid enough to not pay their taxes?


Are you kidding? LOTS of people don't pay taxes. If you're an employee it's pretty hard to avoid, but lots of self employed people never file. Very few of them are ever discovered and prosecuted. They usually try to be as mean as possible when they do find someone in order to make an example of them, but realistically IRS just doesn't have the manpower to track down more than a token number of non-filers.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 04:56:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'I')n the future and a world of billions of (excess) people... Life will be disposable just as it is in overpopulated China.

Whoever is caught stealing steel is bound for 10 years of forced labor building railway tracks...

A pretty good deal for all of us if you ask me :-)


Once people realize how much of a lifeline the trains are going to be, I wouldn't be surprised to see looters like this get shot in the act by the locals.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby Heineken » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 08:28:57

Since railway systems are impossible to police completely (if they are to be economically viable, that is), the emerging theft problem may neutralize one of Kunstler's mantras. Railroads were one of the few rays of hope.

Another doom factor joins the long, long list.

Thanks, Hogan, for alerting us to this.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby jlw61 » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 08:45:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'I')n the future and a world of billions of (excess) people... Life will be disposable just as it is in overpopulated China.

Whoever is caught stealing steel is bound for 10 years of forced labor building railway tracks...

A pretty good deal for all of us if you ask me :-)


Once people realize how much of a lifeline the trains are going to be, I wouldn't be surprised to see looters like this get shot in the act by the locals.


I agree. Remember, looting during and immediately after a disaster is usually considered a shoot-on-site offense. I think what's coming could be considered a disaster.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby Heineken » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 08:49:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'S')ince railway systems are impossible to police completely (if they are to be economically viable, that is), the emerging theft problem may neutralize one of Kunstler's mantras. Railroads were one of the few rays of hope.

Another doom factor joins the long, long list.

Thanks, Hogan, for alerting us to this.


I'm trying not to throw cold water on one of the last hopes. But we need to be realistic about all this. It's like the oil pipelines in Iraq and elsewhere. They are extremely valuable. And very, very vulnerable because they cannot possibly be policed the whole length. Trains are just too easy to derail.. whether it's on purpose or whether it's to steal the tracks for scrap on the black market.


The thing is, as economic conditions deteriorate the rate of theft will continue to rise. At the very time we most need the railroads, they may not be available. It is the deadly intersection of these two trends that most interests me.
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Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains

Unread postby hope_full » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 09:05:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')asn't it speculated a few years ago that we would see a kind of "collapse" because scavenging and stealing of the main infrastructures for metal !?? If i remember well, it was speculated that it would make any smooth transition mostly impossible..


Schneider, I wonder about that too and I remember reading the same thing. Last week, thieves stole all the copper from FOUR a/c compressors at a local church, causing $15,000+ worth of damage. The story never made it to the papers because the church doesn't the publicity. Thieves also destroyed compressors at another Baptist church across town.

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