[gnm]

I saw a docu on that once upon a time. One of the boomers they interviewed who was doing it said "the only problem is you're always hungry" - he looked gaunt. And you have to pick what you do eat very carefully to get a proper balance of nutrition. It basically puts your cells in starvation mode...

Doesn't sound like a lot of fun. I'll roll my dice with genetics and enjoy myself. No one lives forever anyways.

-G

[hope_full]

How many years does it add to your life? Three? Five? Ten?

Thanks, but NO.

I'm a 50-something woman who's already spent most of her life dreaming and fantasizing and thinking about food and working my arse off to stay within a "normal" weight. Of my 50 years on this earth, I've spent too many of them feeling hungry.

You guys have NO IDEA how good you have it. Food is not your sworn enemy.

HF

[Leanan]

Have you read Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes? It's really a fascinating book. It's not a diet book; it's a book about how nutrition science went wrong. (Taubes is a journalist for Science, and often writes about how science goes wrong.)

Anyway, the book is about how little scientific evidence there really is for the "conventional wisdom" of nutrition, especially when it comes to weight loss. Basically, the early research was seriously flawed for a variety of reasons. (It was done by doctors, not scientists, and you can't really experiment on human beings like you can on rats, among other things.) And once fat=bad became nutritional dogma, it became nearly impossible to overturn. Study after study came in showing that fat and meat are not what's bad for you, but people, even scientists, just couldn't believe it and ignored it.

Anyway, one reason high-carb, low-fat, low-meat diets were considered healthy was because Asians, who ate mostly rice back when the studies were done, lived so long. But now, it's starting to look like the key wasn't eating rice, it was eating very little. They were poor, and couldn't afford meat or fat...or much rice. It was calorie restriction, not meat or fat restriction, that made them healthy.

So, yes, it might be that high food prices will make the very poor healthier. If they don't starve entirely.

But it might make those with more money even more overweight. It's long been noted in the US that the poor are more obese than the rich. I suspect one reason is that healthy foods - fresh meat and vegetables - are expensive. Foods that are cheap and filling are carbohydrates, especially refined carbs, which are probably the real villains when it comes to heart disease, cancer, diabetes and obesity.

There's a news story on the front page now, about how people are eating more boxed macaroni and cheese, sugary cereal, and peanut butter and jelly...because it's cheap.

[NeoPeasant]

I saw an interview on a science show (I think it was that alan alda one) with the nutritionist for the Biosphere 2 project. It seems that their food growing efforts went terribly wrong during the experiment and they had to drop to a very low calorie intake. After the end of the experiment the inhabitants were found to be in amazingly good cardiovascular shape.

[Concerned]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'I') saw an interview on a science show (I think it was that alan alda one) with the nutritionist for the Biosphere 2 project. It seems that their food growing efforts went terribly wrong during the experiment and they had to drop to a very low calorie intake. After the end of the experiment the inhabitants were found to be in amazingly good cardiovascular shape.

[BlisteredWhippet]

The title of this thread is a lie.

Most people don't work out. Thats the killer variable. What is it- only 25% of americans work out? 15% weight train.

There is a lot of new research indicating that "use it or lose it" is the main operative biological phenomena going on at many levels. New research, for instance, shows that bones communicate with muscles, to build new parts. Physicality obviously activates a lot of latent genetic potential. The body's systems atrophy with disuse. On average, most people have no neuromotor control over many large muscle groups.

If there is a fountain of youth, its working out. Calorie restriction is fine but it is attractive because it involves no additional effort. You want to age gracefully? Weight train 3-4 times a week. Cardio 4-5. Flexibility 2-3. Plyometric 2-3.

Really, what are we talking about here? Doing pilates by video fro 20 minutes a day before breakfast. Yoga/stretching 15 minutes here and there. Weight training for 20-30 minutes at a time. Riding a bike to work and back (10 miles) 4-5 times/wk. Plyometrics wherever you can do it, 15 minutes a week.

Physical exercise is painful and hard. It is also the only way to go, as far as I'm concerned, because food is problematic. You don't know how much you're getting, or not getting, or WHAT you're getting.

http://www.amazon.com/Fateful-Harvest-G ... 0060931833

Heres my summative advice:

1. Do not do forward bends, even in Yoga. Stresses the anterior lumbar vertebral discs unnessesarily.

2. Do mat pilates. Core strength is critical.

3. Persue "Western" anatomical streching in parallel with Yoga. "Western" includes real anatomical theory- sports medicine and Ballet-type coordination.

4. Practice regaining neuromotor control over all the muscle groups in your body- increases proprioception.

5. Never "run" longer than 5 minutes at a time. LD runners are total fucking morons. The knees are the reason for this restriction. You better believe it. The damage to the knees, for the vast majority of people, outweighs any benefit. Alternative- "Burst" training has been shown to produce all the benefits of running for 30 minutes by running for 3 minutes. 1 minute run, 9 minute walk, repeat x3.

6. Train with purposeful intensity. Most people never "swtich on" the regenerative physcial processes triggered by exercise because they do not pursue it with intensity, a mental disciplince. For instance, they get a bike, and you see them pedaling lazily by and they complain they aren't losing weight or whatever. Or when you're at the gym, and there are these big loaves of bread lying around, lifting a few, then lying around, etc. You need intensity of effort to push your body out of an equilibrium/energy-conserving state and into a condition of beneficial stress. Hit all the machines in the gym within 30 minutes and get the hell out of there. Wait a max of 60 seconds between sets.

7. Do not make the mistake of thinking all physical activity or effort is equivalent. People think "gardening" is "exercise". Or "exercise" is helping someone move. WRONG. For physical exertion to be beneficial, it has to be performed carefully and with specific purpose. Bascially, when you are physcially exerting in everyday experience, the movement is directed in a highly efficient, involuntary way. This is a kind of workout but its not specifically integrative with conscious awareness. You are "working" on not dropping the friend's couch. Your CNS is "working" on using the least amount of effort necessary to produce the required movement. "Exercise" is the opposite activity. The mind is "working" on perception, overriding consciously the autonomous processes- purposefully attempting to control specific muscles to perform specific actions with the most amount of effort. The difference is that one increases strength and fitness, the other is just kind of there. The difference is concentration, purpose, and design of the movement.

8. LEARN anatomy and physiology. You probably know more about your car than your own body. Practice gaining neuromotor control over the smallest, most seemingly insignificant muscle groups. Isn't it a shame that all those years of "physical education" in your primary school years didn't leave you with any real knowledge?

http://www.innerbody.com/image/musbov.html

9. Be consistent. You have to work out, at least 3-4 times per week. Allow a day rest between resistance (anaerobic) workout. Don't beat yourself up if you miss a week, 2 weeks, or a year. Just get back on the horse.

10. Learn to enjoy pain. Its just a mental thing. When you feel pain, tell yourself you like it. Grin like Jack Nicholson. You will injure yourself sooner or later, and have to go through recovery phases. But the benefits are cumulative, synergistic, and systemic.

11. Work with what you've got and be honest and dedicated to your goals. Accept no theoretical limitations.

The fountain of youth is a parable about the dangers of illogical fantasy, about avoiding work and getting a reward.

Finally, breathe less. The less Oxygen you intake, the less oxidative damage will occur. Exercise makes the body more efficient, reducing the need for oxygen by lowering heart rate, metabolic rate, and Blood pressure when the body is at rest. This is the trade-off. Short periods of conditioning where you artificially increase stress to enjoy deeper relaxation on the downside.

[Gerben]

I see a lot of bad advice here, so I might as well add mine.

First of all do not rely on the advice of some random dude that gives you advices over some forum on the internet (including me). Talk to a professional.


For those of you that ignore that advice, I can continue to add some more tips.

A low calory diet is very hard to maintain. The positive results are (mainly) based on people (or animals) that did not have a choice to eat more. For those that do succeed, starving their bodies can be very addictive. Anorexia is a major health threat. Experimenting with this is dangerous and I would recommend against it.

Pain is an indication that you are doing something wrong to your body. Do not ignore pain.

The best thing to do is to exercise half an hour each day. Repetition is important: it's better to exercise 3 times a day 10 minute than an hour every other day.

Save time by combining getting where you want to be and excerising by taking the stairs or riding a bicycle.

[Jenab6]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'I') saw an interview on a science show (I think it was that alan alda one) with the nutritionist for the Biosphere 2 project. It seems that their food growing efforts went terribly wrong during the experiment and they had to drop to a very low calorie intake. After the end of the experiment the inhabitants were found to be in amazingly good cardiovascular shape.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', 'T')he Nazi camp inmates were eating just fine, until the Allies bombed German rail. After that, the Nazis just did the best they could for the inmates, but, of course, the camp staff ate first. The inmates got whatever was left over. So, whose fault was it that the poor Jews were hungry? I doubt that anybody else in the position of the people in charge of the camp would have done differently. For example, if for some reason the supply lines to the US internment camps housing displaced Japanese civilians were cut, and it became very difficult to ship in food, the American in charge would never see fit to starve themselves so that the prisoners could eat better. So let's not let politics cloud our judgment of who is to blame.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', 'T')he Nazi camp inmates were eating just fine, until the Allies bombed German rail. After that, the Nazis just did the best they could for the inmates, but, of course, the camp staff ate first. The inmates got whatever was left over. So, whose fault was it that the poor Jews were hungry? I doubt that anybody else in the position of the people in charge of the camp would have done differently. For example, if for some reason the supply lines to the US internment camps housing displaced Japanese civilians were cut, and it became very difficult to ship in food, the American in charge would never see fit to starve themselves so that the prisoners could eat better. So let's not let politics cloud our judgment of who is to blame.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '[')b]The title of this thread is a lie.

Most people don't work out. Thats the killer variable. What is it- only 25% of americans work out? 15% weight train.

There is a lot of new research indicating that "use it or lose it" is the main operative biological phenomena going on at many levels. New research, for instance, shows that bones communicate with muscles, to build new parts. Physicality obviously activates a lot of latent genetic potential. The body's systems atrophy with disuse. On average, most people have no neuromotor control over many large muscle groups.

[socrates1fan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'I') saw an interview on a science show (I think it was that alan alda one) with the nutritionist for the Biosphere 2 project. It seems that their food growing efforts went terribly wrong during the experiment and they had to drop to a very low calorie intake. After the end of the experiment the inhabitants were found to be in amazingly good cardiovascular shape.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gerben', 'I') see a lot of bad advice here, so I might as well add mine.

First of all do not rely on the advice of some random dude that gives you advices over some forum on the internet (including me). Talk to a professional.

[socrates1fan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '
')They need a shaved-head, mud from head to toes, 16 weeks of Hell kind of effort.

Are you with me Dutchboy???

Whos down to take on old BW in the sandpit??

[Enoch]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', ' ')
See those Nazis weren't so bad starving people in concentration camps they are just trying to get a bit of life extension going.

[socrates1fan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Enoch', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', ' ')
See those Nazis weren't so bad starving people in concentration camps they are just trying to get a bit of life extension going.