[big_rc]

So I go to the doctor a few weeks ago to get some chest pains checked out. Thank goodness it was nothing serious just a slightly dislocated rib. The doctor pops the rib back into place and 45 mins later, I am on my merry way, feeling much better. Two weeks later I get a bill from my insurance company for $200 which covers my portion of the $500 office visit. The worst part about this is that I have a great job and great health insurance.

Something is very, very wrong with the US healthcare system. It's the world's best medicine but only if you can afford it and even if you have insurance, you still might not be able to afford it.

My question is why do conservatives rant and rave so much about socialized medicine? Wouldn't socialized medicine be preferable to having people go bankrupt behind getting sick? Maybe our European Peak Oilers can shed some light on this. How is your nationalized health care system?

[vision-master]

Did you see the PBS program on how the drug companies claim to spend tons of money on R&D but the truth is, it's all going to maketing. What else would you expect from those for profit corporations.

The FDA, JAMA, HMO's and Doctors are controled by drug companies.

The sheeple have been snowed once again.

FYI: Those anti-depressants are about as effective as sugar pills.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y question is why do conservatives rant and rave so much about socialized medicine? Wouldn't socialized medicine be preferable to having people go bankrupt behind getting sick? Maybe our European Peak Oilers can shed some light on this. How is your nationalized health care system?

[jlw61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', 'S')omething is very, very wrong with the US healthcare system. It's the world's best medicine but only if you can afford it and even if you have insurance, you still might not be able to afford it.

My question is why do conservatives rant and rave so much about socialized medicine? Wouldn't socialized medicine be preferable to having people go bankrupt behind getting sick? Maybe our European Peak Oilers can shed some light on this. How is your nationalized health care system?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')FYI: Those anti-depressants are about as effective as sugar pills.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')FYI: Those anti-depressants are about as effective as sugar pills.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jlw61', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', 'S')omething is very, very wrong with the US healthcare system. It's the world's best medicine but only if you can afford it and even if you have insurance, you still might not be able to afford it.

My question is why do conservatives rant and rave so much about socialized medicine? Wouldn't socialized medicine be preferable to having people go bankrupt behind getting sick? Maybe our European Peak Oilers can shed some light on this. How is your nationalized health care system?

[RedStateGreen]

I don't favor universal health care for many reasons:

* it would bankrupt the country

Our current death-phobic society already spends the vast majority of its health dollars in the last year of life. Do we really want our taxes to pay for cancer-ridden senile Grandma to sit in the ICU for a month?

Until we as a nation realize that there is a time to be born and a time to DIE, and we can't do much to change either, throwing money at adding a week to someone's vegetative state is useless.

* it would destroy any small bit of patient confidentiality that we have left.

As the health care laws stand now, your insurance company has full access to your medical records. Do you want the US government to become your insurance company?

* it would not make us healthier

We make us healthier by our choices. As long as we have crappy food, crappy water, crappy air and crappy jobs, we're going to have unhealthy bodies. Sure, some people would have medical care that they wouldn't otherwise have, but at a cost:

* it would not make the health care system better

Doctors and nurses would be paid less if anything. Fewer people would go into the medical field, and those who were there would be overworked even more than they are now. There would be no reason for the slew of hypochondriacs who infest most doctors offices to stay home -- everything's paid for! The waits would be longer, the time a doctor would have to see you less, the cheapest drugs would be used (which might be a good thing -- those are often the best ones), and forget getting experimental or costly care.

Anyway, I'm glad I got out of medicine. It's no longer about making people healthy and all about placebos, comforting neurotics and doing social work. I try to stay away from doctors and eat healthy, meditate and exercise instead. My family is never sick.

[SteinarN]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', 'M')y question is why do conservatives rant and rave so much about socialized medicine? Wouldn't socialized medicine be preferable to having people go bankrupt behind getting sick? Maybe our European Peak Oilers can shed some light on this. How is your nationalized health care system?

[GoghGoner]

The US does not have the best health care and yet we pay the most. My experience with the system has been awful. I went to get tested for asthma a couple of months ago. Since they billed my old insurance co., it has been non-stop hassle.

The main argument against is that the government is ineffective. The government does get things right. You don't die from eating meat because of government. You don't get robbed and raped because of government. You can drink water because of the government. You don't have toxins in your paint because of the government. Etc, etc, etc.

Yes, the government (Republicans) have screwed up the budget. If enough people vote on this issue of spending then we wouldn't be in that mess.

By contrast, the free markets get most things wrong. The CEO of companies are not bound to provide healthy products, they are bound to make money for their shareholders. Surgeons in the US have 4 or 5 houses. The number of doctors is strictly limited so the ones that get in will become rich at the expense of the rest of us. Etc, etc....

The argument that less people would go into the medical field can easily be disproved since the countries with socialized medicine do not have a shortage of doctors.

Does anybody have a single valid argument against socialized medicine?

I think the coming collapse will moot these issues so this is an exercise in futility.

[dinopello]

I haven't been to a doctor in 20 years. But, I'm at about that age where I need to get the middle-age man check up so I'll probably be going soon and see how the system treats me.

I did try to buy an ultra-sound device about 15 years ago so I could apply some therapy to a joint injury that I have from my college days - but it was extremely expensive. I talked with the manufacturers rep and he explained how all medical equipment carries a lot of insurance costs. Like, pulley's for traction cost about 5 times (or something like that) as much for medical uses as the same pully did for non human use.

[Ferretlover]

Socialized medicine means that the doctors, pharmacies, pharm. companies, etc., don't make the big bucks, and that the government would have to spend more of [s]their[/s] our money for health services.

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('redstategreen', 'D')octors and nurses would be paid less if anything.

[Plantagenet]

The US already has multiple socialized medical systems. Most people don't like them.

There is the Veterans Administration medical system for vets. There is Medicare. There is Medicaid. And there is the Emergency Medical Treatment Act of 1985 that illegal aliens use to obtain free, socialized medical care in US hospitals now.

I don't hear anyone saying how great any of the existing socialized medical systems are in the US. THey are underfunded and care is rationed and slow, just like in every other socialized medical system in the world.

Do you want to force everyone to be part of Medicare? Or do you want to force everyone else into a new and improved fifth socialized medical system for the U.S. that you absolutely guarentee will be better then the four existing ones?

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he US already has multiple socialized medical systems. Most people don't like them.

There is the Veterans Administration medical system for vets. There is Medicare. There is Medicaid. And there is the Emergency Medical Treatment Act of 1985 that illegal aliens use to obtain free, socialized medical care in US hospitals now.

I don't hear anyone saying how great any of the existing socialized medical systems are in the US. THey are underfunded and care is rationed and slow, just like in every other socialized medical system in the world.

Do you want to force everyone to be part of Medicare? Or do you want to force everyone else into a new and improved fifth socialized medical system for the U.S. that you absolutely guarentee will be better then the four existing ones?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he US already has multiple socialized medical systems. Most people don't like them.

There is the Veterans Administration medical system for vets. There is Medicare. There is Medicaid. And there is the Emergency Medical Treatment Act of 1985 that illegal aliens use to obtain free, socialized medical care in US hospitals now.

I don't hear anyone saying how great any of the existing socialized medical systems are in the US. THey are underfunded and care is rationed and slow, just like in every other socialized medical system in the world.

Do you want to force everyone to be part of Medicare? Or do you want to force everyone else into a new and improved fifth socialized medical system for the U.S. that you absolutely guarentee will be better then the four existing ones?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he US already has multiple socialized medical systems. Most people don't like them.

There is the Veterans Administration medical system for vets. There is Medicare. There is Medicaid. And there is the Emergency Medical Treatment Act of 1985 that illegal aliens use to obtain free, socialized medical care in US hospitals now.

I don't hear anyone saying how great any of the existing socialized medical systems are in the US. THey are underfunded and care is rationed and slow, just like in every other socialized medical system in the world.

Do you want to force everyone to be part of Medicare? Or do you want to force everyone else into a new and improved fifth socialized medical system for the U.S. that you absolutely guarentee will be better then the four existing ones?

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('redstategreen', 'D')octors and nurses would be paid less if anything.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he US already has multiple socialized medical systems. Most people don't like them.

There is the Veterans Administration medical system for vets. There is Medicare. There is Medicaid. And there is the Emergency Medical Treatment Act of 1985 that illegal aliens use to obtain free, socialized medical care in US hospitals now.

I don't hear anyone saying how great any of the existing socialized medical systems are in the US. THey are underfunded and care is rationed and slow, just like in every other socialized medical system in the world.

Do you want to force everyone to be part of Medicare? Or do you want to force everyone else into a new and improved fifth socialized medical system for the U.S. that you absolutely guarentee will be better then the four existing ones?

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', 'I') don't favor universal health care for many reasons:

* it would bankrupt the country

Our current death-phobic society already spends the vast majority of its health dollars in the last year of life. Do we really want our taxes to pay for cancer-ridden senile Grandma to sit in the ICU for a month?

Until we as a nation realize that there is a time to be born and a time to DIE, and we can't do much to change either, throwing money at adding a week to someone's vegetative state is useless.

* it would destroy any small bit of patient confidentiality that we have left.

As the health care laws stand now, your insurance company has full access to your medical records. Do you want the US government to become your insurance company?

* it would not make us healthier

We make us healthier by our choices. As long as we have crappy food, crappy water, crappy air and crappy jobs, we're going to have unhealthy bodies. Sure, some people would have medical care that they wouldn't otherwise have, but at a cost:

* it would not make the health care system better

Doctors and nurses would be paid less if anything. Fewer people would go into the medical field, and those who were there would be overworked even more than they are now. There would be no reason for the slew of hypochondriacs who infest most doctors offices to stay home -- everything's paid for! The waits would be longer, the time a doctor would have to see you less, the cheapest drugs would be used (which might be a good thing -- those are often the best ones), and forget getting experimental or costly care.