It’s about wisdom
Does Winston Churchill qualify as a good example of a man of wisdom? Definitely!
In the spring of 08 I want to begin the quest for wisdom. How do I ‘get ready’ for becoming wise?
Starting with the definition of wisdom as “seeing life whole” seems to be as good a place to begin as I can think of. How do I get ready to see life whole?
It seems to me that to see life whole I must learn a great deal more than I already have learned but I must start with where I presently am. I am convinced that learning new stuff requires three aspects (a position facing a particular direction) of mind; mentally I must have curiosity, caring, and an orderly mind.
Does Winston Churchill qualify as a good example of a man of wisdom? Definitely!
I think that there are at least three forms of intellection: textual intellection is what we do when we reason in text form, artistic intellection is reasoning in artistic form, and practical intellection is what we do in our day-to-day living.
I think that one must acquire a significant degree of understanding in each of these three forms of intellection to qualify for the distinction of “seeing life whole”.
Winston was an accomplished painter, he was a historian with many books to his credit and he was accomplished broadly in practical intellection as he demonstrated in his political career.
I claim that curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for understanding. Understanding is a far step beyond knowing. I will not examine a matter for the purpose of understanding it unless I am curious about it. I must care enough about the matter to do the intellectual work necessary to understand.
Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.
Understanding is often difficult and time consuming and the justification is not extrinsic (outside cause) but intrinsic.
Questions for consideration:
Is caring necessary for understanding? I think so.
Is curiosity necessary for knowing? I think so.
Is curiosity necessary for understanding? I think so.
Is a knowledge of history required to ‘see life whole’? Absolutely!!
Is difficulty our duty? I think so.
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It’s about wisdom
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It’s about wisdom
by coberst » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 08:47:18
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Re: It’s about wisdom
by bodigami » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 16:56:43
You forgot the subtle, no-textual knowledge that is born within meditation... 
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Re: It’s about wisdom
by coberst » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 17:35:01
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'Y')ou forgot the subtle, no-textual knowledge that is born within meditation...
Understanding is that which is born within meditation.
I have for some time been interested in trying to understand what ‘understand’ means. I have reached the conclusion that ‘curiosity then caring’ is the first steps toward understanding. Without curiosity we care for nothing. Once curiosity is in place then caring becomes necessary for understanding.
Our first experience with ‘understanding’ may be our first friendship. I think that this first friendship may be an example of what Carl Sagan meant by “Understanding is a kind of ecstasy”.
I also think that the boy who falls in love with automobiles and learns everything he can about repairing the junk car he bought has discovered ‘understanding’.
I suspect many people go their complete life and never have an intellectual experience that culminates in the “ecstasy of understanding”. How can this be true? I think that our educational system is designed primarily for filling heads with knowledge and hasn’t time to waste on ‘understanding’.
Understanding must come in the adult years if it is to ever come to many of us. I think that it is very important for an adult to find something intellectual that will excite his or her curiosity and concern sufficiently so as to motivate the effort necessary to understand.
We have little comprehension of ‘understanding’ because our schooling has taught us only to know. Understanding is a step beyond knowing and our society which values production and consumption has little use for understanding. Those who make public policy do not want a population that cares about understanding. The bull that understands will hook at the Matador rather than the cape.
Understanding is generally not valuable in our society and so we have little comprehension of what it is. However there seems to be one application for understanding. I have on several occasions heard a professor say that “you never really understand a subject until you try to teach it”. Here is one occasion that people can begin to comprehend the meaning of the concept. I suspect we all have a sense of what the professor is saying. So here is a ‘use’ for understanding and in this example we who only value that which is ‘useful’ can begin to gain a comprehension of the concept.
We imply that reason can be depended upon as a guide but we do not help the individual understand what reason is. The problem is that our schools and colleges are only now beginning to teach CT (Critical Thinking), which is the art and science of how to think. We adults were never taught how to think we were only taught what to think. If we do not learn how to think and how to help others learn how to think then we are giving only empty words. We are as ignorant of what reason is as those we wish to give up dogma for reason. Until we learn the art and science of reason we cannot help others to learn how to think.
Search for meaning through self-actuated study can provide a purpose similar to the purpose believers find in religion. Understanding resulting from study, leading to meaning and purpose, is perhaps a legitimate foil to dogma.
I think that understanding happens in that rare conflation of emotion and intelligence when we create a meaning that happens like a tipping point, like when water becomes ice, it gives the person a jolt, a eureka moment. When we understand we are creating meaning that is subjective but is what we find we must believe is true.
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Re: It’s about wisdom
by Plantagenet » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 17:47:39
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. "
--Winston Churchill
--Winston Churchill
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Re: It’s about wisdom
by PenultimateManStanding » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 17:57:45
Wisdom is the ability to weave in and out of cynicism. Sometimes to believe is idiocy, sometimes it is essential. A koan from PMS.
Turn those Machines back On! - Don Ameche in Trading Places
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Re: It’s about wisdom
by bodigami » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 20:03:32
coberst, there's useless understanding and understanding of subtle truths that makes us happy and care for nature and our fellow humans. Chose wisely what to understand, don't waste energy in understanding useless memes ...not saying you're currently doing it... because basically you're first experiencing with the first steps of a path of awakening, therefore you're starting to understand both useless crap and the first seeds of self-awakening.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')isdom is the ability to weave in and out of cynicism. Sometimes to believe is idiocy, sometimes it is essential. A koan from PMS.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')isdom is the ability to weave in and out of cynicism. Sometimes to believe is idiocy, sometimes it is essential. A koan from PMS.
a cobert-Raph dialogue will be interesting to read, it will be like two (what's the name Raph uses? ...oh yeah) archetypes fighting for the new humanity (or something)... lol
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Re: It’s about wisdom
by Kaj » Sun 06 Apr 2008, 02:04:45
Here's some more of Winston Churchill's wonderful wisdom, on the subject of the Palestinians:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('In 1948, Winston Churchill', '
') "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('In 1948, Winston Churchill', '
') "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
He was a racist imperialist, and a supporter of genocide.
He was also the first man to order the gassing of the Kurds.
A bigot and a drunkard too. Wise guy.
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Re: It’s about wisdom
by Plantagenet » Sun 06 Apr 2008, 02:33:00
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', 'W')inston Churchill....a supporter of genocide. ...
Actually, Winston Churchill probably did more than any other person to warn Europe about Hitler and then to oppose and defeat the Nazis and so to stop their genocide.
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
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Keep running between the raindrops.
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Keep running between the raindrops.
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