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Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

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Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Denny » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 00:15:02

I must say, I am disappointed in Condoleezza Rice. This week she admits that the U.S. government "mishandled" Maher Arar of Canada. They mistook him for a terrorist and sent him off to "rendition" in Syria, where he was locked up for a year and was tortured, rather than deport him back to his country of citizenship, Canada.

Okay, Condoleezza admits somebody goofed. But, no apologies. She has developed a superiority complex worthy of an aristocrat. And, if you're wrong, why not come clean and say you were on the wrong track and want to mend your ways? There is only one reason, and thiat is there may well be other people like Maher Arar, suffering due to poor judgment and bad policies and the U.S. administration does not want to face the consequences and the liabilities that would entail.

I thought perhaps Condie was cut above a lot of the inhuman creatures who inhabit or inhabited so many U.S government top positions, folks like Cheney and Rumsfeld and Chertof. Guess I am wrong. These folks seem to have ice water in their veins and brains only capable of calculating new ways to create mayhem.

Think I am exaggerating? Well, for starters, since Syria is so much on the outs with the U.S., why would the U.S. send a suspected terrorist to a country that is perceived to be a spawning ground for more terrorism? It wold be like sending free ammunition to your enemy.

See N.Y. Times - Condoleeza admits...
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Blacksmith » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 04:43:52

That son of a bitch got $11,000,000 from the Canadian government. He now has a law suit against the United States government; since his case is now before the courts the Secretary of State had every right to say nothing. Don’t be so naive he’s just in it for the money.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Blacksmith » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 04:45:46

Double post.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 09:12:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')on’t be so naive he’s just in it for the money.


Exactly. He planned for the CIA to kidnap him. He wanted them to do it and baited them into it and they fell for it, those suckers. They sent him off to Syria just like he wanted where he could have a broomstick shoved up his ass for hours at a time while hanging upside down by his ankles and then get electric currents running through his testicles. Just for some money. He's a clever, greedy pig.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Blacksmith » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 17:37:19

For 11 million you can shove a broomstick up my ass. Some expert. Of course your used to it.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 17:46:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', ' ')He planned for the CIA to kidnap him.


Actually the Canadians kidnapped him.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby smiley » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 19:06:59

I don't trust black politicians and women.

IMO anyone who is a) black or b) woman or c) both, and makes it to the top cannot be trusted.

Not that I am a racist or think that such untrustworthy creatures are particularly abundant among said groups.

It is just that (unfortunately) we live in a white-male dominated society. Since the rat race is more difficult for colored people and women, they have to be tougher and stronger than their white male competitors.

Only stronger in political terms means that you have to be a better liar, backstabber etc. etc.

So if you see someone make it to the top then you know that if necessary, they will bite someones head off, chew it and gulp it down with a bucket of thinner. And God knows perhaps they have.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 19:22:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ctually the Canadians kidnapped him.


You sure about that? Everything I've read says that he was picked up at JFK by US officials, detained and then sent to Syria. It was based off of Canadian information, but that Canadian info didn't detain/kidnap him; it was Americans that did that.

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')For 11 million you can shove a broomstick up my ass.


Well, that's because only a sick individual would condone torture and feel no remorse for the victims of it.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 20:05:57

"Based on erroneous information provided by the Canadian Government, the U.S. arrested him and then deported him to his native Syria."


The Canadians set this poor guy up.

First the Canadians gave the US phony info about this guy and asked the U.S. to arrest him. Then the Canadians wouldn't help him and wouldn't even allow him back into Canada. The U.S. therefore returned him to Syria, his native country.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 20:14:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '"')Based on erroneous information provided by the Canadian Government, the U.S. arrested him and then deported him to his native Syria."


The Canadians set this poor guy up. :!:


But did they arrest him? Did they keep him detained without access to an attorney properly? And did they send him to Syria knowing that he'd be tortured relentlessly until he was forced to sign a confession? Yes, the Canadians fucked up horribly in trusting the US government, but to pass the guilt off to them entirely is insane, but I guess that's what we are to expect from people like you.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 20:53:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '"')Based on erroneous information provided by the Canadian Government, the U.S. arrested him and then deported him to his native Syria."


The Canadians set this poor guy up. :!:


But did they arrest him? Did they keep him detained without access to an attorney properly? And did they send him to Syria knowing that he'd be tortured relentlessly until he was forced to sign a confession? Yes, the Canadians fucked up horribly in trusting the US government, but to pass the guilt off to them entirely is insane, but I guess that's what we are to expect from people like you.


The insanity that people like you exhibit in trying to excuse the Canadians' actions is curious. The Canadians didn't fail because they put "trust" in the U.S. government. It was the Canadians who lied to the U.S. government about this guy. The U.S. government trusted the Canadians to provide accurate police information and it was the Canadians who proved untrustworthy. It was Canada who lied and failed in their most basic obligations to this poor guy.

The poor torture victim was a Canadian resident. He didn't have a residence permit for the U.S. It was against U.S. immigration laws for the U.S. to release him within the U.S. The Canadians wouldn't take him back and claimed he was a terrorist. Its too bad his home country of Syria is a shithole that tortured him, but at least his adopted country of Canada eventually let him back in and paid damages to him.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 21:03:27

On September 26, 2002, during a stopover in New York City en route from a family vacation in Tunisia to Montreal, Arar was detained by the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service. The INS was acting upon information supplied by the Canadian RCMP.[8] Arar was deported to Syria, the country where he was born and raised and remains a citizen. Although he was also a citizen of Canada and was travelling on a Canadian passport, Canadian officials erroneously informed the United States that he was no longer a resident of their nation. Canadian (initially) and American officials have labeled his transfer to Syria as a deportation.


So Canada told the US to arrest this guy. Canada wouldn't take him in and lied about him. He has no legal right to be in the U.S. so he is deported to his home country, Syria.

What part of Canada don't you understand? :P
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Kingcoal » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 21:09:42

Wow, round one goes to Plantagenet.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 21:58:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t was the Canadians who lied to the U.S. government about this guy.


You mind showing some proof that they lied?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t was Canada who lied


Again, proof?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Canada wouldn't take him in and lied about him


Again...proof?

You've claimed three times now that Canada lied and manipulated the intelligence to get this man arrested and deported to Syria. Nowhere does any of the information say that Canada lied, but instead passed along information that turned out to be false and then erroneously said that he wasn't a resident of Canada. None of those count as lying as lying requires intent to deceive and the counts against Canada are simply errors in analyzing data and a simple error. So could you please show some proof that they were lying?

And you're claim that the US deported him because he had no reason to be here is false. AG Ashcroft himself said that the reason he was deported was because he was deemed to be a threat to the American people. If he is truly considered a terrorist or terrorist supporter then what is the point in sending him to Syria, a terrorist regime (says our government)? Why let him out of our sights in the first place, let alone to a hostile nation? The US would have been better served to keep him here under detention as a terrorist suspect where he would not have been subject to such torture and the details of his association with AQ would have been found out much quicker and with much less bad publicity.

No, I'm not going to completely defend Canada on this case as they've clearly made mistakes and they've accounted for those mistakes on one end (through payments) and I hope that there are reprimands on the other for the erroneous information given to US officials twice.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 22:17:32

So your defense for the Canadian RCMP sending incorrect info and asking the US to hold this guy, and the Canadian state department sending info saying they wouldn't admit him into Canada because he wasn't a resident there is that Canada wasn't lying but they were so incompetent that two separate branches of the Canadian government simultaneously made innocent "boo-boos" about the same guy? :P
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 22:35:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'S')o your defense for the Canadian RCMP sending incorrect info and asking the US to hold this guy, and the Canadian state department sending info saying they wouldn't admit him into Canada because he wasn't a resident there is that Canada wasn't lying but they made an innocent "boo-boo"? :P


Yeah, you know why? There's this little principle that we have in the West and it's called the presumption of innocence. Maybe you've heard of it.

Now, can you present any evidence or suggest any reason why there would have been a government conspiracy to get the US to kidnap this man and send him to Syria to be tortured? Or is this just slander?

I'm willing to bet that you can't, just like you can't prove that Canadians kidnapped the man, like you claimed. Or that the Canadians set him up, like you claimed.

So what's the reason now, the logical reason, that the US sent him to a terrorist supporting regime like Syria if he is in fact a terrorist like the US thought he was and would have likely acted against the US, as the US likely thought?
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 23:05:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', ' ')So what's the reason now, the logical reason, that the US sent him to a terrorist supporting regime like Syria


1. Canada said he wasn't a resident of Canada and refused him entry.

2. He had no visa or entry permit for the U.S.

3. He was a Syrian citizen.

Therefore he was deported to his home country of Syria. [smilie=evil5.gif]
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 23:18:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', ' ')So what's the reason now, the logical reason, that the US sent him to a terrorist supporting regime like Syria


1. Canada said he wasn't a resident of Canada and refused him entry.

2. He had no visa or entry permit for the U.S.

3. He was a Syrian citizen.

Therefore he was deported to his home country of Syria. [smilie=evil5.gif]


But that makes no sense. Syria supposedly, according to the government, supports terrorists, both the types that are anti-Israeli and anti-US. So the US government thinks that he is a terrorist. So you say that the appropriate action is to send a suspected terrorist to a "known" terrorist supporting nation. And the reason is because he isn't supposed to be in this country? Now explain why the government would do that. Why would they send him to another nation, not to mention another nation that just so happens to sponsor terrorism?

So I'll ask this again, in a much clearer fashion: what is the reason for sending a suspected terrorist to a terrorist supporting country, in which it's likely he could just be let free to carry out attacks against the US or Israel or other nation? That doesn't make much sense.
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Re: Sorry is the hardest word - for Condoleezza

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 23:22:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'w')hat is the reason for sending a suspected terrorist to a terrorist supporting country, in which it's likely he could just be let free to carry out attacks against the US or Israel or other nation? That doesn't make much sense.


It doesn't make any sense for you to accuse this poor guy of being a terrorist without any evidence to support your claim. Remember....the Canadian police info claiming he was a terrorist was bogus. :roll:

He was deported to Syria because he was a citizen of Syria. Canada claimed he had no right to enter their country and they refused to take him. He had no right to enter or reside in any other country, including the US. Where else do you think he should have been deported to?
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