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CIA career (analytical)

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CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby Baldwin » Sun 20 May 2007, 22:35:56

If you don't know by now, I am 17 and am looking for a post peak career.

My father brought up an interesting idea. He thought I might try the CIA as an analyst. I am interested in economic, leadership, military, and political analysis. The pros are that I am intrigued by foreign affairs, particularly with the middle east. I'd love to be fluent in arabic and farsi (persian/iranian). I'd also have a steady government paycheck. I'd also have a slightly higher priority for government hand outs of corn gruel for when TSHTF. ;) The cons are that essentially the government owns me.

My other idea is the (Catholic) priesthood. The pros are that I am spiritual, the job will always be needed, and such. The cons are that I would have no money and no guarantee of a useful skill (except counseling and distributing the host).
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby frankthetank » Sun 20 May 2007, 22:40:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'d also have a slightly higher priority for government hand outs of corn gruel


What better reason can there be? Go for it :)
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby Mechler » Sun 20 May 2007, 23:10:09

Analysis can be fun and rewarding. It is also much safer than anything operational. You are often on the leading edge of information that is briefed all the way to the top. Government jobs, in general, don't pay superbly but they are quite stable.

One of the drawbacks is that you'll never be able to discuss work with your significant other (unless he/she has a clearance, too). Also, be prepared to work in buildings without any windows.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby threadbear » Sun 20 May 2007, 23:13:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', 'I')f you don't know by now, I am 17 and am looking for a post peak career.

My father brought up an interesting idea. He thought I might try the CIA as an analyst. I am interested in economic, leadership, military, and political analysis. The pros are that I am intrigued by foreign affairs, particularly with the middle east. I'd love to be fluent in arabic and farsi (persian/iranian). I'd also have a steady government paycheck. I'd also have a slightly higher priority for government hand outs of corn gruel for when TSHTF. ;) The cons are that essentially the government owns me.

My other idea is the (Catholic) priesthood. The pros are that I am spiritual, the job will always be needed, and such. The cons are that I would have no money and no guarantee of a useful skill (except counseling and distributing the host).


There is something charming yet somehow disturbing about your two choices.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby Baldwin » Sun 20 May 2007, 23:21:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('purcatty', 'C')an you lie with a straight face?
If not try another career.


Yes. Wait...were you referring to the CIA or the priesthood? For the CIA, I am perfectly prepared to file the For the President report (Document A) and the For the Sheeple report on the same incident (document B).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nalysis can be fun and rewarding. It is also much safer than anything operational. You are often on the leading edge of information that is briefed all the way to the top. Government jobs, in general, don't pay superbly but they are quite stable.

One of the drawbacks is that you'll never be able to discuss work with your significant other (unless he/she has a clearance, too). Also, be prepared to work in buildings without any windows.


If I learn an in-demand language like Farsi or Arabic, apparently my salary benefits substantially...with a $35k sign on bonus.

At school, I take 4 classes of 40 minutes each (math, english, latin, and history) is a room without ANY windows. It's not really a problem.

Why would I want to discuss work? Most people in the world cannot understand the dumbed down crap on the mainstream media let alone raw, highly complex info coming from sources in the field.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 21 May 2007, 01:34:02

Go for the government job!

What happens if the Catholic Church goes bankrupt and "lays off" some of its priests?
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Mon 21 May 2007, 01:53:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat happens if the Catholic Church goes bankrupt and "lays off" some of its priests?


Nevermind the fact that the government already IS bankrupt. What happens when other countries want their money back?

If you value your own personal autonomy, avoid the government or any major company getting contracts from it. As you said, the government would basically own you.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby dukey » Mon 21 May 2007, 07:17:06

The CIA are a bunch of crooks
in fact the CIA is a disgrace

http://video.google.com/videosearch?um= ... l=en&q=cia
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby Newsseeker » Mon 21 May 2007, 08:34:55

That's quite a divergence there. Catholic priest or CIA analyst that sounds like a joke. I don't know enough about either profession to give you advice but I can say that the analyst will be different whereas the priest will be routine. Think about what you want out of life and then go for it.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby gg3 » Mon 21 May 2007, 09:50:50

I guess I have to be the first one to mention that going into the Catholic priesthood will mean being owned by an institution that is the world's single largest cause of overpopulation, which in turn is the root cause of ALL of our sustainability crises. You can engage your spiritual side without selling your soul to a power structure that is literally killing the planet.

On the other hand, if you have a real opportunity to go for CIA, do it. Intel analysis is one of the most interesting jobs on the planet. (Though, the entry level jobs will be somewhat tedious; just be patient, the interesting stuff will come in due course.)

If you go for Farsi etc., you might also have opportunities at NSA. Though from the sound of your posting, you seem more like you'd be into the policy-level stuff, which is CIA, whereas NSA is mostly technical.

Linguist/translators are always in high demand, and CIA is also a path to State.

One thing you need to take deadly seriously: If you plan to go for this, you have to keep your nose absolutely clean. That means no brushes with the law beyond the level of a speeding ticket, and even speeding tickets are questionable. No illegal drugs, no drinking to excess, no wild parties in college where stupid things happen, no unplanned pregnancies with questionable outcomes. No participation in campus radical groups, and frankly even hanging out here isn't such a good idea until after you've been on the job for a few years and have track record. Register "independent" instead of Democrat or Republican. Take all of your classes in college seriously, develop good working relationships with the professors, and take every single assignment as if it's part of the job interview.

Basically you have to live a life that is 100% regular & reliable, and become known as someone who can be counted on 100% to live up to his/her word.

I would suggest looking around the CIA website, they may have intern programs for undergrads. If they do, sign up and go for it. NSA and NRO have something like that, as does NGA (National Geospatial Intel Agency; formerly Defense Mapping Agency), so CIA probably has it.

If not, then look for college professors who have "State Department" or something similar on their resumes. Set up an appointment to meet with them. Tell them you're interested in a job in the State Department and that you are interested in analysis. Don't come out and say "I want to work at CIA," let them bring up their background first and ask you. Knowing how to be discrete is part of the job, so start practicing early. And as for your peers in college, you don't have to tell them where you want to work, just stick to mutual interest in the schoolwork and extracurricular activities and leave it there. Again, discretion learned early demonstrates capability to handle secrets later.

Stick to the Directorate of Intelligence; it has a company culture similar to a college campus. The Directorate of Operations is more suitable to people with military background who can handle getting shot at, and that doesn't seem like where you're at.

As for not talking to your family about your job: You will probably be allowed to say you work for the State Department, and maybe even be able to say you work for CIA, but that is all, and not one word more. Even if your spouse has a TS clearance, you will not be able to talk about work, because TS is specific to the material covered and does not grant blanket access. You work in one compartment, s/he works in a different compartment, and neither has need to know what the other is working on. Before you get married you can probably tell your prospective spouse that you will never be able to discuss work and they will have to trust you about that. Agency training covers how to handle these contingencies; take it seriously.

One of the things they'll tell you about having a clearance is, do not ever get anywhere close to discussing anything related to classified material. You'll see stuff in the news and you'll know better, and you'll be highly tempted to say "that's not half the story," but the moment you say that, comes the temptation to say just a little more and a little more, until you're skirting the edges of classified, where comes the serious risk of crossing the line and divulging secrets. See below about developing internal compartmentalization; it takes some practice but eventually you learn it and it becomes second nature.

Avoiding alcohol in excess is a good step to avoid crossing the line. One drink with a meal, that's all, no more, not ever. And no bars, no hanging out in places where someone could get you sauced and get you talking. You will be tested more than once, by friendly strangers who ask interesting questions. They work for the agency and they are just checking you out to make sure you don't blab, because the next person asking those questions could be working for the badguys and you don't want that on your conscience (much less have to face charges for it).

You'll need to develop a kind of internal compartmentalization where you leave work behind and re-join the unclassified world when you come home. You can take your analysis skills with you, but when you comment on stuff in the news, you will have to wall off all the stuff you know from work, and stick to using only the reported news plus your analytic skills. So you can say to a family member, "that politician's statement contradicts something he said two weeks ago," but you can't reference it back to something you can't discuss. In fact many people with TS clearances are quite adept at this, and after a while it becomes second nature; but at first, better to err on the side of excessive caution.

OTOH, there are social clubs at all the 3-letter agencies, so you can find peers with similar interests, and with them, you can talk more freely about work. Though if in doubt, always ask your supervisor.

Bottom line: it's more fun and more exciting than most jobs in the "normal" world. You'll be at the cutting edge of world events. You won't be able to talk about it but you will have the satisfaction of knowing you're making a difference. You'll earn a decent middle class salary and be able to live in a nice neighborhood, and half your neighbors won't be able to talk about their jobs either. Working in intel has zero resemblance to what you see in spy movies. No glamor, no sexy companions with a taste for expensive drinks, none of that nonsense. What's exciting about it is the thrill of putting the pieces together and serving our country and making a difference. If that's where your heart is at, go for it.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby Baldwin » Mon 21 May 2007, 17:32:45

GG3...you seem to have quite a...deeper than average insight on the CIA. Non sequitur: As a Catholic and a peak oiler, I advocate St. Augustine's view of sex....virtually none. The last thing we need is kids.

I suppose I should divulge my history with alcohol. The last time I had some, I took a sip of killian's irish red. It was my first time with beer. Terrible. Absolutely terrible. It's basically carbonated, colored vinegar. I'll pretty much be dry my whole life. The blood of Christ (wine) from mass is like battery acid...so I won't be doing much drinking. Drugs have no appeal. For some reason, my generation loves to surrender itself to drugs. It is like losing your sovereignty over yourself. I am not exactly a hypersexual playboy (even though the media wants me to be so), so the government won't have to support my lovechildren.

I already know our 2 party system is a crock...so I wouldn't take a political affiliation at all, not even independent.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')tick to the Directorate of Intelligence; it has a company culture similar to a college campus. The Directorate of Operations is more suitable to people with military background who can handle getting shot at, and that doesn't seem like where you're at.


I don't really have any interest in trying to assassinate an errant sheikh in Beirut. I am policy/analysis. Although, it is food for thought to see what I'd do if shot at.



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for not talking to your family about your job: You will probably be allowed to say you work for the State Department, and maybe even be able to say you work for CIA, but that is all, and not one word more. Even if your spouse has a TS clearance, you will not be able to talk about work, because TS is specific to the material covered and does not grant blanket access. You work in one compartment, s/he works in a different compartment, and neither has need to know what the other is working on. Before you get married you can probably tell your prospective spouse that you will never be able to discuss work and they will have to trust you about that. Agency training covers how to handle these contingencies; take it seriously


I am a quiet person (though not necessarily shy) by nature and live for myself....which takes care of spouses and blabbing. I really don't want to marry some generation me yuppie girl who'll wonder why I don't bring 18k gold jewelry home each night.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou'll need to develop a kind of internal compartmentalization where you leave work behind and re-join the unclassified world when you come home. You can take your analysis skills with you, but when you comment on stuff in the news, you will have to wall off all the stuff you know from work, and stick to using only the reported news plus your analytic skills. So you can say to a family member, "that politician's statement contradicts something he said two weeks ago," but you can't reference it back to something you can't discuss. In fact many people with TS clearances are quite adept at this, and after a while it becomes second nature; but at first, better to err on the side of excessive caution.


My father believes in abiotic oil and the other family members are semi-cornucopians. That pretty much discourages me from discussing complex middle eastern politics. I can debase myself to the point where my comment is just: "I am so damn sick of seeing the escapades of hollywood whore X."

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')t's more fun and more exciting than most jobs in the "normal" world.


As one of my teachers told us, most of us will be "pencil pushers". I want a job with more meaning in it. That is why I picked the CIA and the priesthood. There is meaning there that doesn't exist in other jobs.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby 128shot » Mon 21 May 2007, 18:07:34

This is actually an interesting idea.


though if you want to get into the highest levels of the CIA-don't you have to be either connected or have military experience?
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby Baldwin » Mon 21 May 2007, 20:52:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'T')his is actually an interesting idea.


though if you want to get into the highest levels of the CIA-don't you have to be either connected or have military experience?


Connections are always welcome. My cousin just graduated from Notre Dame with summa cum laude honors. He really networked himself excellently, with a clerkship for 1 year and then a job he will assume at a firm next year. I am going to ask him for advice, though those college level internships would be a good place to start.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby 128shot » Mon 21 May 2007, 21:21:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'T')his is actually an interesting idea.


though if you want to get into the highest levels of the CIA-don't you have to be either connected or have military experience?


Connections are always welcome. My cousin just graduated from Notre Dame with summa cum laude honors. He really networked himself excellently, with a clerkship for 1 year and then a job he will assume at a firm next year. I am going to ask him for advice, though those college level internships would be a good place to start.


Even then-any connections your family makes will only go so far.


You need to weasel your way into political ball rooms etc. Pose as reporter (Why not? if you can fake it well enough) doing an interview with some political figure you might seek to rub shoulders with.
If I had a little money and the balls to do it, I would.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby Baldwin » Mon 21 May 2007, 21:41:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'E')ven then-any connections your family makes will only go so far.


You need to weasel your way into political ball rooms etc. Pose as reporter (Why not? if you can fake it well enough) doing an interview with some political figure you might seek to rub shoulders with.
If I had a little money and the balls to do it, I would.


If found out, that whole posing as a reporter can ruin a career. Professors, internships, and other high-achieveing students can be just as productive and less risky.
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby gg3 » Tue 22 May 2007, 05:06:51

Hi Baldwin:-)

In fact I'm a telephone switching systems engineer. Geek stuff, exciting to me but you'd probably find it boring. Though, I did invent the feature that lets your office phone system transfer calls to your cellphone or home office line automatically. But no point going into that here:-)

Well it seems that you've got the bases covered in terms of sticking to the path and not getting digressed with chimp-level amusements.

I gave this issue some thought a while ago and figured out what it is that interests me about that line of work, and it's this: Knowing what's going to happen before it happens. Having enough of the picture to be able to have viable foresight. I'm a very patient guy in most ways but I definitely want to know what's ahead as far as possible. Not for the sake of control, but mostly for the sake of knowing. (And I also get consistent statistically significant scores on precognition tests but that's another digression....)

Agreed, do not ever pose as a reporter or do any other false cover ops on your way up; that is deadly. Stick to the path. And don't worry about rubbing noses with people who have connections. Use your head, do good work, impress people with your smarts and more importantly with the accuracy of your output. In intel, as in the sciences, nothing is as powerful as a hypothesis that gets subsequently confirmed by empirical results. Don't let it bug you if at first you're doing "detail work" and small stuff: there's still room to demonstrate those capabilities. It may be that the highest level is occupied by people with connections, but the levels just below that are where the really interesting stuff happens and that's a realistic goal to aim for.

---

Pstarr, it's not like that.

For example, you have a major talent for cartography and geography. Now think of being in a place where you're among peers who have similar interest and talent. And consider working on a project that will determine the entire course of human settlement in an area, and that this is being taken seriously at the policy level by government. Except that you can't tell your spouse or friends after you go home each day. That would be much like life at the National Geospatial Intel Agency (NGA), and CIA isn't much different.

It's not a loveless soulless life; far from it. You still have your family and friends, and those relationships are every bit as deeply-held and meaningful as under any other circumstances; you just have to compartmentalize what goes on at the office, which is something most people do anyway because they hate their jobs. (What makes it difficult is when you love your job, but that's easier than having a job you hate.)

The part that becomes difficult to deal with is when you're working for an administration that's inimical to everything you value. You already went through that one and made two hops and landed on your feet. You have the advantage that working for local government gives you a spatial option: you can exit a locale with bad policy and move to a locale with better policy, which you did. For people working at the Federal level this isn't possible; the best they can do is wait out the storm or just retire, and that is a very unpleasant situation (though no different than when a person keeps a job they hate because of the health insurance).

And last but not least: How would you respond to a complete anarchist who says that local government is also part of the soul-killing machine, and suggests that you spend the rest of your life doing some job that's innocuous but makes no use of your talents or passions? We want people in Federal government at all levels who are on the right side with respect to sustainability issues. Same as with state and local government, and the private sector. People who have good values shouldn't disenfranchise themselves or put themselves in a position where they can't make a difference. They should do everything they can to make a difference. Even if it means walking in places where "there be tygers."
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Re: CIA career (analytical)

Unread postby manu » Tue 22 May 2007, 08:42:40

My suggestion would be to join the CIA and then become a priest as a cover, that way your both. They can stick you someplace in the middle East, say Iran, and you can go around spying, pretenting to convert the muslims to christians. (Or, I guess in your case maybe you wont be pretending). I will also give you a shortcut to the CIA, go see if you can get a job with Kellog, Root and Brown. Tell them you would love to learn Persian and work for them in Dubai.
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