[Kylon]

Since men are making up less and less of the college population, shouldn't we have affirmative action programs for them, just like we did for women?

[gampy]

lol.

[Kylon]

What? I mean, if women are the minorities, and because they are the minorities they get special affirmative action benefits, that force colleges to put a certain percentage of women into colleges,

Shouldn't the same be true for men?


I mean, that would be equal rights.

[gampy]

Operative word "did".

[Kylon]

So basically, it's okay to discriminate against men but not women?

Okay, I see how it works.


We men just need to start investing our resources in building up foreign countries and communities.

We need to start sending the jobs overseas, and start building up those societies where men are more valued,

We need to oh wait, outsourcing...

[gampy]

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for that viewpoint.

If you are threatened by women in the workplace or at school...that has nothing to do with "affirmative action" or "femi-nazi's".

It has more to do with you being a misogynist. Seriously. I am not using that word as a pejorative. People are people. Women , men, blacks, browns, whatever. Yes...more and more women enter the workforce and get educations and get high paying jobs. So you have to compete with men or women or blacks or browns. So what?

If you have to compete for a job with a guy or a girl, or a black? what's the difference?

[Kylon]

I'm just interested in "equality". Why is it that women get to use the law to benefit them, but the law isn't going to benefit men?

I don't mind true equality. What I mind is that government services which should be given to citizens equally are being twisted to benefit women more, even though men pay more taxes.

[username]

It's not so simple as that. Science and engineering programs are still one big sausage fest and these areas are where a large part of the wealth is to be had, with some exceptions. The classic Burger King fry cook generating majors such as communications and psychology make up a big percentage of what women are studying. I don't have the numbers in front of me -- it's just a general observation from skimming through them multiple times.

Also, women are way more likely to end their careers for their family or to start over after their children are old enough to go to daycare--I mean public school. There's a big push to get women to get heavily involved in their careers before they get married so they'll be too busy to worry about children.

[Kylon]

But science and engineering tend to be areas that men naturally excel at. A tendency to excel at science and engineering just happens to be a by-product of pre-natal testosterone to estrogen conversion in the womb (women don't have testosterone converted to estrogen prenatally, due to lacking an enzyme known as aromatase, estrogen is actually the compound that changes the brain into a male brain, while progesterone is what is primarily responsible for women's brains being womanly.).

So men have different grey matter proportions, so in turn, they tend to have greater apititudes in certain areas.

Why should men be punished for what they have natural strengths in?

[username]

I'm not saying affirmative action is good, just that the numbers aren't pointing to a real significant trend that will hurt men anytime soon.

There's also a lot of social pressure for women to stay out of s&e. In recent surveys, the number 1 reason women said they did not study engineering was because the men smell, not because they didn't like the field or weren't good at it.

[Loki]

Kylon, you don't honestly think feminism and affirmative action have anything to do with "equality" or "fairness" do you?

And Username, I've spent a lot of time on college campuses, and I don't recall ever seeing anybody putting guns to women's heads and forcing them to major in 17th century Swahili literature or womyn's studies. They're perfectly free to major in electrical engineering or molecular chemistry if they want to. The great majority don't. Why do you focus on the lack of women in science and engineering? Why not advocate for men-only scholarships in women's studies or communications? God knows there are an abundance of women-only scholarships in my field (geography).

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('username', 'b')ecause the men smell, not because they didn't like the field or weren't good at it.

[username]

It's because the major reason for affirmative action is supposed wealth inequality and people in science and engineering tend to make just a little bit more than the communications majors when they're done. As far as I could tell I wasn't really advocating any affirmative action of any sort, just explaining the imbalance and the reasoning behind their choice of emphasizing certain fields for people. I personally think affirmative action is more about the school looking good and getting more donations, if anything.

I've talked with women who have faced a lot of sexist jokes from guys just because of their field being for men, especially the good-looking ones. There are a lot of discouraging elements out there that, while not forcing any decisions, can weigh heavily on a person. Unless you're a woman I'd say you wouldn't really know what it's like, and neither do I.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('username', 'b')ecause the men smell, not because they didn't like the field or weren't good at it.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('username', ' ')There are a lot of discouraging elements out there that, while not forcing any decisions, can weigh heavily on a person.

[username]

Maybe I've been lucky and haven't encountered enough feminazis to make me a misogynist quite yet.

[gampy]

Look..I am in no way a femi-nazi. Or an apologist for them. But after reading through this thread and posting a reply, I have to say that you are misguided about women's role in industry.

The fact of the matter is, we still live in a patriarchial society. Yes, women are elected to the senate, and Martha Stewart and Oprah own half of Manhattan and Chicago. But the fact remains that for the majority of women...it's still a man's world...some might like that fact, but it still sucks for the average girl.

It's attitudes like your's that make it hard for the average girl, like the average guy, to get ahead in this world. Affirmative action might seem discrimintory to you, but all it means is that you need to compete with women, as well as men. Live with it.

[Kylon]

username,

I hope you never have to.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', 'B')ut the fact remains that for the majority of women...it's still a man's world...some might like that fact, but it still sucks for the average girl.

[gampy]

Ummmm...what exactly are you implying?

I am not good at , nor do I like, irony and facetiousness.

Please give me something I can understand. or respond to.

[gampy]

Hahaha...sorry, but I am drinking Scotch...good single malt Scots whisky, and it's hard to follow things...sorrry...but please be a little more straighforward, and less circumspect. Thanks