[SinisterBlueCat]

http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/14/news/me ... 2006121410

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')EW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The U.S. Mint has implemented a law against melting down pennies and nickels which, at current metal prices, could be worth more as metal than as currency.

The Mint has received numerous questions over the past several months regarding the metal value of the coins and the legality of melting them.


"We are taking this action because the nation needs its coinage for commerce," said Director Ed Moy in a statement.
Tips on retiring early

"We don't want to see our pennies and nickels melted down so a few individuals can take advantage of the American taxpayer. Replacing these coins would be an enormous cost to taxpayers."

The new regulations authorize a fine of up to $10,000, or imprisonment of up to five years, or both, against violators.

The rule also bans the exportation of the coins, beyond traveling with $5 worth and shipping up to $100 for legitimate purposes.

[SinisterBlueCat]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-12-1 ... usat_x.htm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople who melt pennies or nickels to profit from the jump in metals prices could face jail time and pay thousands of dollars in fines, according to new rules out Thursday.

Soaring metals prices mean that the value of the metal in pennies and nickels exceeds the face value of the coins. Based on current metals prices, the value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint.

<snip>

Under the new rules, it is illegal to melt pennies and nickels. It is also illegal to export the coins for melting. Travelers may legally carry up to $5 in 1- and 5-cent coins out of the USA or ship $100 of the coins abroad "for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes."

Violators could spend up to five years in prison and pay as much as $10,000 in fines. Plus, the government will confiscate any coins or metal used in melting schemes.

The rules are similar to those enacted in the 1960s and 1970s, when metals prices also rose, the Mint said. Ongoing regulations make it illegal to alter coins with an intent to commit fraud. Before today's new regulations, it was not illegal to melt coins.

[scienceteacher]

Let's get real here. The cost of energy required to melt a nickle is more than the 1-2 cents "profit " one could earn.

[SinisterBlueCat]

maybe, maybe not. if you already deal in scrap metal, it might just add a little more joy to your christmas, you know?

[Grifter]

In the UK the copper in a 2 pence coin is worth 3 pence.

£1000 worth of 2 pence coins must be a possitive EROEI.

Its illegal though, I don't know who would find out.

[mrobert]

Let's hyperinflate then

[EnergyHog]

Geez! The next thing you know it'll be illegal to burn dollar bills to heat your house!

[mrobert]

Soon ... it will have a positive EROEI if you know what I mean

[rogerhb]

So how do they square this with the constitution which says only gold or silver will be used?

[SinisterBlueCat]

The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
Henry A. Kissinger

[blukatzen]

In looking at our coins and how "thin" they are getting..and light to boot, I am waiting for them to implement poker chips as coinage soon.

[mattduke]

The odds of another US gold confiscation just went up a notch.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'T')he odds of another US gold confiscation just went up a notch.

[MrBill]

Anytime infrastructure is stolen and sold for the price of its scrap value it imposes a cost on its owners or shareholders to replace. For example, sewer covers, copper wires, street light posts, etc. have all been stolen by theives and then sold as scrap metal. Except they cost a lot more to produce and replace, nevermind losing the economic value of not working, than the value of the scrap metal.

In this case individuals removing legal tender from circulation represents a cost born by taxpayers not governments. So in the same way governments can pass laws against drinking and driving because of the unacceptable cost of accidents in terms of damage, hospitalization and lives lost they can also pass laws to prevent individuals from melting down coinage for its scrap value.

The alternative is removing all coins as legal tender. But why should taxpayers have to pay for replacing coins sold as scrap?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'B')ut why should taxpayers have to pay for replacing coins sold as scrap?

[SinisterBlueCat]

and to further rogerhb's thought....if i hoard 2000 pennies in my gramma's attic, or bury them in her backyard, is that not the same in effect as melting them?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'i')f i hoard 2000 pennies in my gramma's attic ... is that not the same in effect as melting them?

[SinisterBlueCat]

yeah, it is effectively taking them out of circulation.

poor ole gramma with her hair on fire and her ass catching

[mattduke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'A')nytime infrastructure is stolen and sold for the price of its scrap value it imposes a cost on its owners or shareholders to replace. For example, sewer covers, copper wires, street light posts, etc. have all been stolen by theives and then sold as scrap metal. Except they cost a lot more to produce and replace, nevermind losing the economic value of not working, than the value of the scrap metal.

In this case individuals removing legal tender from circulation represents a cost born by taxpayers not governments. So in the same way governments can pass laws against drinking and driving because of the unacceptable cost of accidents in terms of damage, hospitalization and lives lost they can also pass laws to prevent individuals from melting down coinage for its scrap value.

The alternative is removing all coins as legal tender. But why should taxpayers have to pay for replacing coins sold as scrap?

[mgibbons19]

[quohttp://www.peakoil.com/modules/Forums/bbcode_box/images/center.gif
centerte="mattduke"]
Stolen!!!
Stolen!!!!!
Stolen!!!!!!!!!!!

My money does NOT belong to YOU or to the GOVERNMENT. [/quote]

As much as the libertarian in me wants to agree with you I suspect it works out like this:

The VALUE of the money belongs to you.

The coinage belongs to the mint.