[neocone]

I kinda updated the web site that I use to portray an artistic hypothesis of the evolution of a very predatory movement. It would be based on 2 simple premises:

1) Duality of complementary competition/cooperation processes which balance point would be pushed away from the physical world into the world of ideas (to make for a thermodynamic utopia in the physical world)
2) Destroy anything not like it, to prove it is right by an undecidable process (i.e Goedel's theorem)

#2 is a correlation introduced by a offshot of the neoc movement called the "Ruin Division". Which motto is "No hope, no love, no mercy" to mimic the 3 laws of thermodynamics i.e you can't win, you can't get even, and you can't get out of the game.

Site is here http://www.permanentvision.com/movement.html

[Blueberry]

pm for ya

[neocone]

Oh I forgot... basically I see a weird trend happening now which is similar to the early 20th century: The muslim fundamentalists and their nihilistic cult of suicide are the new anarchists, and we can be scared to think of what kind of ideas will be propagated to the forefront by predatory movements once the new depression sets in... And the whole planet is like the new 1930s germany...

[americandream]

Mmmmm....entropism......and duality...interesting combination. I suspect that the co-extensively dual/non-dual field/state is infinitely elaborate to embrace all manner of functions including what you propose.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'O')h I forgot... basically I see a weird trend happening now which is similar to the early 20th century: The muslim fundamentalists and their nihilistic cult of suicide are the new anarchists, and we can be scared to think of what kind of ideas will be propagated to the forefront by predatory movements once the new depression sets in... And the whole planet is like the new 1930s germany...

[gg3]

The Islamic terrorists are not nihilistic. Nihilism is the emphatic rejection of truth and its allied concepts, i.e. no principles, no purpose, no meaning. Islamic extremists obviously have principles and purpose, no matter how much a perversion of Islam they are or how destesable they seem to the rest of the Islamic world and the rest of the world generally. Nihilism also refers to lawlessness and terrorism, but these definitions muddy the waters when applied to Islamic or other religious-extremist types of terrorists.

"No hope/love/mercy" is a nihilistic interpretation of thermodynamics. For want of a better word, the opposite position, a "mystical" interpretation of thermodynamics would be more along the lines of "Newton's clockwork universe," which in turn is a subset of a bigger picture wherein the universe appears more as a thought than as a mechanism.

The difference between the nihilistic version and the mystical version is nothing more or less than a difference in individual emotional responses to empirical facts that, in and of themselves, have no emotional content. (By analogy, an automobile has no emotional content; humans have emotional responses to automobiles e.g. attraction, rejection, social affiliation, fascination with design aspects, etc.).

IMHO, nihilists are textbook cases of depression that would benefit from appropriate medicines and counseling.

Neocone, you have some very interesting ideas to offer but you're you're using language imprecisely all over the place. Islamic fundie/terrs are NOT anarchists. They are theocrats, their ideal state is not anarchistic it is highly hierarchical and dictatorial. Please go look up the word "anarchism," it refers to the absence of an organized government.

The only common ground between Islamic terrs and anarchists is that both appear to have a taste for bombs. Actually, real anarchists nowadays aren't into blowing stuff up, they're more into spending their time in cafes arguing with Marxists:-)

EU, smaller-scale fascist movements can get away with being warlike on a localized basis without attracting superpower attention. See also the various genocides and "ethnic cleansings" of the past quarter century.

In fact there are some rather unsettling comparisons to be made between the present US administration and classical fascism. This is not hyperbole, and I truly disdain using the f-word freely since all the bloody Marxists and suchlike throw it around casually. But if you look closely you find some scary similarities. Keyword "unitary executive." And to the extent that the present regime has fascistic tendencies, it does appear to be getting away with being warlike on a global scale, even if its strategic and operational planning is incompetent.

So here's another comparison for you. Fascist states, despite promoting the warrior archetype to cult-like status and claiming to be in favor of military strength, actually end up causing enormous damage to their national military capabilities.

Fascist states are so eager to put their militaries to full use in various conquests, that they overtax their militaries to the breaking point. Then, after the inevitable defeat on one front or another, and after the military is identified in the public mind with overreaching conquest followed by defeat, the profession of warrior suffers disdain among the public, further weakening the military because it can't recruit & retain the brightest and the strongest.

Look at how long it took, after WW2, for the newly democratized Germany to rebuild a viable force. Today the German armed forces are first-rate in every way, and dedicated to pluralistic and democratic ideals; but it was a long hard climb to get there.

We are seeing these dynamics at work right now in the US and the situation infuriates me. We went into Afghanistan with the most highly capable, ferocious, and fine-tuned fighting machine in the history of the world, but thanks to the civilan leadership's incompetence, our military is now strained to the point where it should have broken entirely. The only thing holding it together right now is the dedication and courage of our men & women on the ground. It's like a corporation whose senior management have been looting the treasury but whose workforce still believes in the company and is willing to make every sacrifice necessary to keep it going.

Rumsfeld shouldn't just be fired. He should be put on trial for treason.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'T')he muslim fundamentalists and their nihilistic cult of suicide

[Carlhole]

When I gaze into my crystal ball, I don't see ideologies as re-playing the role they did throughout the 20th century. I see the rise of machine intelligence and the advent of philosophies of thought and governance as yet unimaginable.

Unimaginably intelligent machines will be to human brains like unbelievably powerful and sophisticated equipment was to human muscle in the 20th century.

What are the limits to intelligence? I think we'll begin to find out.

I see the obselesence of vast swaths of redundant, slow-witted, low-quality, resource-wasting humanity (but not humanity's complete extinction). The Nietzschean ubermensche will struggle to arise as a phoenix from the ashes of a former, less-intelligent world.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'I')MHO, nihilists are textbook cases of depression that would benefit from appropriate medicines and counseling.

[americandream]

It would be good to see some original thought in here other than this constant grandstanding with the ideas/intuitive insights of others.

IMHO, the sum of all acts in a realm of intrinsic insubstantiality adds up to the innate enigma of that realms apparent duality....

who is to say, given that fundamental...that this particular realm is not expansive enough to embrace the abrahamic limitations of Islam/Christianity/Judaism as well as nihilistic scope (including of course this apparent tirade....lol).

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'R')umsfeld shouldn't just be fired. He should be put on trial for treason.

[neocone]

What basically the muslim fundamentalists indulge in is very similar to russian style anarchism that prevailed in late 19th century russia, and other terrorist movements of that period.

Granted one can see as much fundamental differences between the 2 as one would see a huge difference between Stalin and Hitler, yet in practice the 2 systems the later created were very similar in terms of methods, and results. Stalin wasn't he an admirer of Hitler, in denial even as operassion Barbarossa was in full swing for a few days already back in june 1941?

Like dolphins and sharks adapting to the same hydrodynamic profiles, or bats and birds adopting the same flight strategies, we can always talk of convergence even though some elements might be different. The context is also different, like technology that can be used and demographics.

Rejecting Life for Death (and some obscure "paradise" concept) is as destructive as anarchy and destruction for the sake of destruction.

If I called a possible movement more ruthless than the fundamentalists "hyperfascistic", it is because fascism of the 1930s was meant as a reaction bringing back the concepts of "race" and "land" from the 19th century. This to counteract the drive for novelty such as democratic drive and a social democratic welfare state favouring the emancipation of the lower classes, and also the rise of socialism.

Hyperfascism would go deeper and further back, deconstructing the very idea of emotions as electro-chemical impulses in the brain, of life as just a chemical reaction, and trying to build an everlasting entity as a reaction to the eternal "afterlife" offered by religious fundamentalism. It would be by definition godless and immoral.

It would also be extremly predatory and would try to destroy anything not like it, thus making it the antithesis of a peaceful and tolerant element. In a way it would draw anything not like it to play the very game of competition it would strive to define as a formalization of Darwinian selection.

The later would simply become a causal relationship between two elements at any depth of layer in the hierarchy of components of the universe at large i.e an atom influences another atom by hitting it or a country influences another country by trying to destroy it.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', ' ')We are seeing these dynamics at work right now in the US and the situation infuriates me. We went into Afghanistan with the most highly capable, ferocious, and fine-tuned fighting machine in the history of the world, but thanks to the civilan leadership's incompetence, our military is now strained to the point where it should have broken entirely. The only thing holding it together right now is the dedication and courage of our men & women on the ground. It's like a corporation whose senior management have been looting the treasury but whose workforce still believes in the company and is willing to make every sacrifice necessary to keep it going.

[neocone]

Well, what you describe is the disintegration of the welfare and benevolent state due to Malthusian principles: Give free food and good conditions to everyone, and soon the minority that abuses it becomes the majority and destroys the system.

Likewise modern democracies are useless and impotent against small cells of hyperviolent and dedicated cult-like groups. The only thing that can effectively fight the 20,000 members or so of Al Quaeda would be something even more violent and ruthless. Once you consider emotions disposable and pure energetical capitalism as the only rule, I don't think anyone can claim to be more fanatical than you...

Yet New Cartesiannism has a fatal flow... for me to know and you guys to find out