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Re: Miki responds

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Re: Miki responds

Unread postby Miki » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 05:19:39

Well,well,well. I woke up today and I encountered this nice surprise. I have to thank the poster who started this. I never realized I was so famous here. This thread has been read over 350 times in less than a day .

Given that I am the main guest in this party, I'd like to say a few words in this memorable ocassion:

1-I did not know anyone was being forced to read my posts at gunpoint. Had I known of such a terrorist action, I'd have been the first one to denounce it.

2-I am fervent about my values, something that inevitably shows in most of my posts. Injustice, lack of compassion, bigotry, ignorance, and psychopaty provoke quite a bit of indignation in me----and I'm very proud of that. The day that I stop being indignated about these things, I will have abandoned my values and compromised my integrity. The only way for that to happen would be for my conscience and my soul to die.

3-We Mediterraneans/Arabs are very emotional and expressive. I can understand that some Americans may find that strange or annoying. I've been exposed to several cultures and that has made me aware and tolerant of the differences among us.

4-It seems many of the posters here are unconfortable with the prospect of a smart woman willing to stand her ground. Otherwise, I don't see where all those allegations of hysteria come from. Men that prefer women to be submissive and dumb, love to call smart strong women histerical. As that is the case, I take your labelling me histerical as a compliment.

5-There seems to be some confusion about some of my points of view here. Just for the sake of clarification let me settle this once and for all:

A-I don't condone terrorism. Yet, I understand the hate that causes it, as I have been a victim of American/Israeli state-sponsored terrrorism. Thus, I understand that the root of that hate are American foreign policies in the ME.

B-I consider Al Qaeda a despicable terrorist group, but I consider Hisballah a legitimate resistance guerrilla.

C-Some of Hisballah's methods are morally wrong, but when you face a ruthless and more powerful enemy like the IDF, there are not any morally right options on the table. It's either subdue or fight with whatever means you have. I chose the latter and they do too.

D-The day that Hisballah fights a war that goes against Lebanese interests or puts Lebanon in danger in order to favor Syrian/Irani interests, they will lose most of their Lebanese supporters, and I'll be the first one to despise them for that. So far, they've never done it, so they have my respect as a legitimate resistance guerrilla that is defending the sovereignity of our country against Israeli imperialism (Zionism).

E-I don't think Ahmadinejad is a saint, but I do think he's smarter and more willing to solve political problems through negotiations than neocons are. Bush & co. are no less extremist or imperialist than Iran is. Thus, Iran is not more of a threat to the world than Israel or the US. The US and Israel have slaughtered way more civilians than Iran ever has, and the only country that has actually used a nuclear bomb is the US. Thus, Iran has the right to posess a nuclear weapon if they chose to. Every country has a right to self-defense and in a world where your main threats already have those weapons, it is your right to have one too.

6-I was not aware that double posting was so annoying to some of you. I was eager to reply to everyone, and that required double posting, as it's really complicated to reply to more than one poster in a single post. I assumed those of you who are following a thread just read all the new posts anyway.

7-Some here hate me, some here love me. Either way I am grateful for having caught your interest as it allows me to express my point of view to a broader audience. I have special thanks for nwildman and oil4you, who have helped me dispel several stereotypes and prejudism about Islam; Jack/Specop who have helped me raise despise for psychopatic methods of solving political problems; Rwwff who has helped me uncover the real agendas behind American/Israeli actions, as well as the nature of their state-sponsored terrorism; Eli who helped me show the double standards and prejudiced views that even moderate Christians have when judging Islam; Smallpox girl who taught me about her first-hand experience of the Palestinian plight; Magus/PMS/Azreal/Smiley who taught me about the importance of being open to different point of views and of accepting when I have failed to see a part of the whole picture; Venky who taught me about self-control in the face of provokation; Threadbear/Emmersonbiggins/Free/Neopo who taught me about the importance of critical thinking in the face of media bias and propaganda; and Roger who made me laugh when everything around me was a somber reality of children crying their dead mothers and homes being converted to rubble in seconds.

I'm probably forgetting a few people, but suffice it to say that I do learn from those that I find disgusting as much as I learn from those that I admire.

8-I am not the red-haired girl. I have dark brown hair and green-blue eyes. Want to see a pic? :)

PS: Sorry for the loooong posts. I'm a very expressive, opinionated (and articulate) person :).
Last edited by Ferretlover on Thu 21 Apr 2011, 11:51:08, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Clarified title.
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Re:

Unread postby Doly » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 05:36:29

Hey, I never figured you were a girl too! (Then, I have not been reading every single one of your posts).

I think your point of view is generally acceptable, except for saying that Hezbollah are a legitimate guerrilla. I don't even know if there is such a thing as a legitimate guerrilla. Certainly it doesn't look to me like Hezbollah are helping Lebanon at all, rather like they are part of the problem.

But hey, I'm not Lebanese.
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Re:

Unread postby rogerhb » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 06:10:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'I') don't even know if there is such a thing as a legitimate guerrilla.


Remember one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Guerrilla is a fighter in a small war.

The term originated from Spanish resistence to Napoleonic occupation.

Is resistance to foreign occupation legitimate?

If you followed Churchill's famous "Fight them on the beaches..." speech, he was proposing guerrilla warfare if a Nazi invasion eventuated.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re:

Unread postby Miki » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 06:29:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'I') think your point of view is generally acceptable, except for saying that Hezbollah are a legitimate guerrilla. I don't even know if there is such a thing as a legitimate guerrilla. Certainly it doesn't look to me like Hezbollah are helping Lebanon at all, rather like they are part of the problem.

But hey, I'm not Lebanese.


Hey Doly,

I forgot to mention you. You're the devil's advocate who challenges all of us (more me than others though). A much needed referee :).

About guerrilla fighting, I'll tell you a little personal story: Not so long ago, I was watching TV with one of my best friends, a Palestinian/Lebanese Sunni Muslim, and we saw a group of Hamas fighters in the news with their "Allah hou Akbar" ("God is great") messages on their foreheads. I looked at her and said "I don't understand how these people can use God as a justification to kill people!". From my Christian perspective that was even more deplorable than just killing.

As I learned more about the Palestinian situation, the trauma and impotence of these people, I began to understand better. When I became a victim of Israeli despotism and terrorism myself, I could perfectly put myself in their shoes.

Even Israeli statesmen have confessed that if they were Palestinians, they would join a resistance army! Go figure.

Believe me when I say that I despise violence as much (if not more) than you do. It breaks my heart to see *anyone/anything* suffer, even a little insect. But this world is such a messed up place that sometimes there are not any non-violent options other than to subdue, be mistreated, or be killed/have your loved ones killed.

That's the sad reality.
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Re:

Unread postby Fergus » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 09:17:33

What happened, now I am gunna have to go search the forum pages, gee, thanks a lot.
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Re:

Unread postby Niagara » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 10:06:15

Wow, look at that!

Miki has reached post # 911 8O
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Re:

Unread postby nwildmand » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 13:29:25

2 of your better posts miki. id like to see more like them.

that being said im not letting you of the hook, ill be right there when you make a mistake.
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Re:

Unread postby azreal60 » Thu 31 Aug 2006, 00:04:29

Constantly hounding a person makes them more likely to react in the manner your describing. If I had someone constantly telling me I was scum and not worth living, why, I might too say some disagreeable things and lose my temper.

Given the verbal beatings miki had to endure when she first came here, I was actually the most impressed not by what she talked about, but by her intestinal fortitude.
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Re:

Unread postby nwildmand » Thu 31 Aug 2006, 12:31:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('azreal60', 'C')onstantly hounding a person makes them more likely to react in the manner your describing. If I had someone constantly telling me I was scum and not worth living, why, I might too say some disagreeable things and lose my temper.


thats the whole point. piss them off, they say irrational things, makes it easier to punch holes in their case.
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Re:

Unread postby azreal60 » Thu 31 Aug 2006, 23:52:57

Saying something irrational first only makes you look like an idiot, and them basically gain everyone's sympathy. I wouldn't have had half the sympathetic reaction I did towards miki had it not been for people like you jumping all over her. If your attempt was to make her look irrational, the only person it made look irrational was yourself.

This isn't a flame, I'm honestly telling you what it made you look like. Honestly, if you want to make someone look bad, the less emotion you put into a post, the better. The more you come off as a flaming lunatic, the more likely the person who has to respond will have a sympathy reaction. It's human nature, if 6 people are going after one person, I don't care what that one person says, they are going to have more sympathy unless it's for something pretty silly.

I've seen it happen time and time again. Even when someone was posting something that I totally didn't agree with, emotionally when people where ripping into them, the human reaction is to give them the benifit of the doubt, simply because of the attacks against them. Had their been no attacks, likely there would have been no support.
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Re:

Unread postby Miki » Fri 01 Sep 2006, 13:53:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('azreal60', 'S')aying something irrational first only makes you look like an idiot, and them basically gain everyone's sympathy. I wouldn't have had half the sympathetic reaction I did towards miki had it not been for people like you jumping all over her.


I'm honestly wondering why my posts are causing so much of a reaction among you guys. Why is it so annoying for some of you to have me posting here? It's not like anyone is forcing you to read my posts. You can even put me in ignore. So what's the issue? Can anyone explain to me, please?

Even those of you who "hate" me are obviously reading my posts and doing your best to find weaknesses in my arguments. If I was saying stupid things that were obviously false or irrational, I wouldn't get any attention from anyone. All of you would just dismiss my posts, but that's not the case. Even the fact that some of you hate me tells me that what I'm saying is truly making you question your own assumptions, if only a bit.
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Re:

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 01 Sep 2006, 15:37:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'I')f I was saying stupid things that were obviously false or irrational, I wouldn't get any attention from anyone. All of you would just dismiss my posts, but that's not the case. Even the fact that some of you hate me tells me that what I'm saying is truly making you question your own assumptions, if only a bit.


That's not strictly true, Miki. From my experience on several messageboards, there's almost no one so irrational that people will ignore his/her posts. Even obviously really nutty people get responded to, this is just the nature of messageboards.

You shouldn't put any special importance on people responding to you, it may only mean they have a little extra time on their hands. I'm serious.
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Re:

Unread postby lateStarter » Fri 01 Sep 2006, 17:02:57

Miki meets her match: the coherent vs the incoherent...

Miki vs Raphael. How many rounds can they go before they realize that they are not even on the same planet? Let's begin....
We have been brought into the present condition in which we are unable neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them. - Livy
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Re:

Unread postby Miki » Fri 01 Sep 2006, 17:05:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')hat's not strictly true, Miki. From my experience on several messageboards, there's almost no one so irrational that people will ignore his/her posts. Even obviously really nutty people get responded to, this is just the nature of messageboards.

You shouldn't put any special importance on people responding to you, it may only mean they have a little extra time on their hands. I'm serious.


You're right Ludi. I'm just trying to understand why so many people feel uncomfortable about me posting here? I'm just curious.

Raphael:Thanks for the link to the poll. I'm surprised Jack didn't make it. Specop doesn't seem so scary to me. He boasts a lot about cruelty, but I think deep inside he's not that scary, whereas Jack truly sounds like a psycho.
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Re:

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 01 Sep 2006, 17:14:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'Y')ou're right Ludi. I'm just trying to understand why so many people feel uncomfortable about me posting here? I'm just curious.

Americans don't like being confronted with the hashness of reality. we much prefer to live in a Fox News fantasy land where we are valiant liberators of the world. Most Americans are prone to hives and fits of uncontrollable anger when confronted by reality.
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Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re:

Unread postby Miki » Sat 02 Sep 2006, 13:06:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'Y')ou're right Ludi. I'm just trying to understand why so many people feel uncomfortable about me posting here? I'm just curious.

Americans don't like being confronted with the hashness of reality. we much prefer to live in a Fox News fantasy land where we are valiant liberators of the world. Most Americans are prone to hives and fits of uncontrollable anger when confronted by reality.


I think all human beings feel threatened when our worldviews are challenged. In a way, it threatens our stability. However, we're talking about human rights here. One would think that it's not that hard to question one's beliefs when those beliefs may hurt other human beings.

I think a lot of people are incapable of thinking in grays. They need black and white answers for everything. Simple explanations are very digestable for the masses that have too little time to question anything, live alone think about the fate of non-Americans. So Bush made it very simple for them: here are us the righteous, there are them the Islamo-fascists that want to kill us, so we need to kill them first, and collateral damage is inevitable. So go about your business and just leave it in Bush's hands....nevermind that he's an extremist with a mind as rigid as a rock and a pendant for human rights violations...nevermind that his war on terror is creating more terror each day...nevermind that the Europeans think that his war on terror is bullshit...
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Re:

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sat 02 Sep 2006, 20:56:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'I') think a lot of people are incapable of thinking in grays. They need black and white answers for everything.

I think it's an artifact of being raised in an Abrahamic religion. Taoism, Budhism, and most indigenous religions that I've encountered view the world almost entirely in shades of grey. That's the meaning of the Yin and Yang for example. Good and evil are basically just mirror images of eachother and each contains elements of the other.

Abrahamic religions are obsessed with following rules and winning the good graces of a violent and judgemental deity. No wonder they tend to see the world in simplistic binary terms.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re:

Unread postby Miki » Sun 03 Sep 2006, 15:57:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I') think it's an artifact of being raised in an Abrahamic religion. Taoism, Budhism, and most indigenous religions that I've encountered view the world almost entirely in shades of grey. That's the meaning of the Yin and Yang for example. Good and evil are basically just mirror images of eachother and each contains elements of the other.

Abrahamic religions are obsessed with following rules and winning the good graces of a violent and judgemental deity. No wonder they tend to see the world in simplistic binary terms.


I don't think rigidity is a metter of religion as much as a personality trait. Studies show that a few temperamental traits have a strong biological component and rigidity is closely related to a couple of those traits. Even babies differ in the degrees in which hey are willing to explore the world or take risks.

That said, I do think that extremism is more common among the monotheistic religions, and that may be due to the dichotimization of morals that is emphasized by them. That was quite an insightful remark SPG!

I also think that we could all learn from other religions (other than our own, that is), and non-monotheistic religions have a lot of wisdom that is often missing from Western culture (eg, holistic worldviews).
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