[jdumars]

Okay, I have been a strong propent of self-sufficiency, learning to live with nature, survival through preparation, blah, blah, blah

But the bottom line I have come to realize is that there's virtually NO WAY TO SUSTAINABLY DO THIS! It makes me soooo mad that no matter what plan you can come up with, there's some government agency just waiting to screw it up and either confiscate your belongings or toss you in jail. Buy land? Nope. You must have an income that covers property taxes for as long as you live. Plus, when TSHTF, local governments (like Portland for example) come up with nifty additional taxes. Can't pay them? No problem... they just sue you, garnish your wages or put a lien on your real property. Ok, so maybe the answer is to become a wanderer, or a vagrant. Nope. That's a nice way to wind up in jail or dead. Plus, any form of effective self-protection is illegal. So, hmmmm what else is there? Emigration!! That's it... I'll go live illegally in another country and just hope it turns out okay. No wait, I'll get citizenship there! Uhm, apparently that requires a significant amount of personal wealth to do. Plus, being an American in a foreign country right now is not exactly welcomed. I just don't know what the hell to do! This is a nice little extortion racket the government has going....

flame away.

[emersonbiggins]

As long as there are roads that connect your property to the outside world & all its requisite civil services (sheriff, fire department, rural water, etc.), there will always be property taxes.

Your good fortune will always subsidize those down on their luck, and vice versa - maybe not the best way of doing things, but certainly not changing anytime soon.

On a related topic, it's probably time for me to get in on on the homeownership racket before it tanks, because everybody will be bailing everybody else out, you can be sure. Renters will be left holding the bag.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'A')s long as there are roads that connect your property to the outside world & all its requisite civil services (sheriff, fire department, rural water, etc.), there will always be property taxes.

[Ayame]

You're damn right jdumars, it is a racket. The only way to live is the government's way and the government makes damn sure of it. They're gonna make damn sure we all go down together when this boat sinks. It makes me sooo mad too.

[gnm]

There is no such thing as real property ownership in this country. Property tax is serfdom. You tithe the king or you get kicked off his property.... period.

-G

[Kylon]

Ocean Colonies are starting to look good eh?

Living on a ship, sailing the world, collecting resources from the ocean, growing all of ones own food, using tidal energy to power modern day conviences(or thermal differences between top and bottom layers of ocean), trading either biofuel, manufactured goods, the trading of goods by shipping, or resources collected from the ocean in order to trade for goods, it's actually the way to go in my opinion.

You might say, "What about living space, what about quality of life, won't I be trapped on a ship then?".

The answer of course is yes.

The solution, VIDEO GAMES, virtual reality, the matrix.

Imagine a bunch of Sea farms/mines/factories, out in the ocean, and in their pass time they spend their time focusing on studying in virtual reality, or playing virtual games.

They could use defect tolerant computer chips(which can be made cheaply in labs or at home, obsoleting the need for FABs(they aren't in widespread use, as it would eliminate the need for big computer chip companies, and they wouldn't obsolete themselves). This would mean they could make computer chips, could mine the resources they needed from using(I'm not going to tell but I have an idea for a new way of doing underwater mining!), and thus they could collect methane for trading, or other underwater minerals.

They could use cheaply made HAM radios to broadcast their virtual reality network, their online game.

Of course you'd have to worry about pirates, but that's why you'd need to build your own military.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'T')here is no such thing as real property ownership in this country. Property tax is serfdom. You tithe the king or you get kicked off his property.... period.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'A')s long as there are roads that connect your property to the outside world & all its requisite civil services (sheriff, fire department, rural water, etc.), there will always be property taxes.

[strider3700]

They call them right of way agreements up here and they are pretty common in the more rural areas. I found a nice piece of acreage wedged between a fork in a river but land accessible from the third side. A driveway went from that third side right up to a major road through a neighbours property. Turns out there was no legal right of way and the neighbour was refusing to grant access anymore. This took a $300,000 piece of property and turned it into a $40,000 piece of property. I'm sure that the person that bought the land was probably that neighbour.

[NordicThora]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdumars', 'I') have come to realize...that there's virtually NO WAY TO SUSTAINABLY DO THIS! It makes me soooo mad that no matter what plan you can come up with, there's some government agency just waiting to screw it up and either confiscate your belongings or toss you in jail.

[Pablo2079]

I suppose you could squat on some remote land, but that would be pretty temporary. Remote land is also generally in less than ideal climates. I've sometimes wondered about the British Columbia coast and squating on an island somewhere between the north end of Vancouver Island and the Charlottes. It doesn't get extremely cold in the winter, but it also doesn't get too warm in the summer. It's pretty wet though....

It's tough to know what, if anything, one can do to do to prepare.

[Gigashadow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pablo2079', 'I') suppose you could squat on some remote land, but that would be pretty temporary. Remote land is also generally in less than ideal climates. I've sometimes wondered about the British Columbia coast and squating on an island somewhere between the north end of Vancouver Island and the Charlottes. It doesn't get extremely cold in the winter, but it also doesn't get too warm in the summer. It's pretty wet though....

It's tough to know what, if anything, one can do to do to prepare.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pablo2079', '.')..It's tough to know what, if anything, one can do to do to prepare.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdumars', ' ')there's virtually NO WAY TO SUSTAINABLY DO THIS!

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdumars', 'E')migration!! That's it... I'll go live illegally in another country and just hope it turns out okay. No wait, I'll get citizenship there! Uhm, apparently that requires a significant amount of personal wealth to do. Plus, being an American in a foreign country right now is not exactly welcomed.

[gnm]

emersonbiggins, That other post summed up one example, but I think a lot of states have right of way laws which would have to be hashed out in court to allow an equitable agreement to both parties- a trade you this back strip for this side strip sort of thing... But I was actually referring to isolated plots of land which are surrounded by public land or national forest.

-G

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'P')robably the last person to live in a truly sustainable way on turtle island was Crazy Horse, and he got shot. But...

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'H')ow did he do that? By remaining nomadic in isolated lands and engaging in hit-and-run guerrilla tactics.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'H')ow did he do that? By remaining nomadic in isolated lands and engaging in hit-and-run guerrilla tactics.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'I')n fact, you will notice in my earlier post that I suggested keeping a low profile. Keeping a low profile is not compatible with carrying out guerrilla tactics.