[JohnDenver]

This is a response to a comment net-paw made in the Mike Lynch thread:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') also hate to burst your bubble but accepting the supposed simplicity of "peak oil" as being how much oil can you get out of the ground for x amount of dollars seems to me to be a little, well, silly. We all know and even blind freddy can see this, is that there is indeed a restricted amount of oil available. Yet how much of this due to lack of refining availablility ? Also when accepting the word of the oil companies there are other factors to consider. How about their stranglehold on publishing ? Their help and influence in forming our education systems ? Not only that but also their stranglehold on scientific funding?

[JohnDenver]

More stuff by net-paw in a similar vein, about how the oil companies are pulling the strings of the public debate:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') take it you have heard of an environmental group called "friends of the earth" ? Are you aware how they were set up financially in the begining. Did you know that the people behind this did so to stop the spread of nuclear energy. Are you aware that much of the origins of the environmental movement were financed to do exactly this ? I am sorry but as history shows the oil companies do indeed have control of funding and indeed ways and means of stopping alternative energy sources. BP is a major part of the solar energy market. Why do you think they have chosen to invest money in solar ? If you believe that the oil companies do not use their influence to stifle alternative energy sources then you are being incredibly naive.

[rogerhb]

The trashing of the trams in the US is fairly well documented.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'M')ore generally, is the peak oil scare itself a strategy for manipulating public opinion to achieve oil company goals (like opening ANWR etc.)?

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'B')ut almost no-one is taking any notice of this "scam"

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'B')ut almost no-one is taking any notice of this "scam"

[JohnDenver]

Good points, Tony. You're right that the multinationals don't have much to gain from jumping on peak oil. They don't really care about peanuts like ANWR anyway. They're interested in bigger fish like Iraq, and natural gas. The domestic U.S. drillers, however, are interested in gutting U.S. environmental rules on ANWR and the OCS, and Matt Simmons has been lobbying for them for quite some time (even before his peak oil days). It probably has to do with the fact that Simmons operates in the U.S.

The National Oil Companies of OPEC, on the other hand, have a clear motive for buying into peak oil. It gives them the perfect cover to jack up prices by loafing and restraining supply. Cheap oil isn't in their interest, and there's no way to undercut them anymore. They're sitting on most of the oil, and they're a cartel. That's the problem Lord Browne is referring to. That explains why he's anti peak oil, and likely to become even more so.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem is that the remaining oil is located in places like Iraq, where you can't drill due to the war, and cartel countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Russia, where you can't drill because they won't let you. They're a cartel -- sitting on the oil and cashing in.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem is that the remaining oil is located in places like Iraq, where you can't drill due to the war, and cartel countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Russia, where you can't drill because they won't let you. They're a cartel -- sitting on the oil and cashing in.

[net-paw]

I am a bit hesitatant in posting in here. When talking about the history of oil and the influence the main players in the oil industry have and continue to have is quite daunting. Not only that but when you mention the name Rockefeller you will find that many times it is tied to vast "conspiracy theories" about world domination and a "New World Order". It sort of opens up a can of worms that is filled with so much misinformation and quite frankly a whole bunch of semi religous devil worshiping claptrap. Organisations such as the Illuminati are brought up and it is all too easy to dimiss anything that is related to any of the above as being a whole lot of nonsense. Unfortunately it is not allways the case.

Now one source of information that gives a very thorough and less one sided view on oil history is the book :

A Century of War - Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order by F. William Engdahl

Now hold on a moment before you dismiss this out of hand because it mentions the "New World Order". It is not a book about covert "conspiracy theories" at all, despite it's title. To get an idea of how this book is written you can find excerpts of chapters 7 and 9 here :
http://earth.prohosting.com/%7Ejswift/engdahl.html

These sections mention the formation of "friends of the earth" and their role in holding back the nuclear movement. It also gives an accurate depiction of the 1970's oil crisis that you won't find anywhere else.

The authors website can be found here :
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/

You may also wish to scroll down to the bottom of the above link and read his paper on the 1997-1998 asian financial crisis. It gives you an indication of what really happens in the world and it's a view on events that you won't find reflected in the mainstream press.

I find it interesting that many "peak oilers" still claim that peak oil is still a relative unknown. The main people who are talking up the threat of peak oil are in fact those connected with the oil industry. Even oil companies themselves are DIRECTLY promoting peak oil. This site is promoted by Chevron :
http://www.willyoujoinus.com/

Note that the Aspen Institute is connected to this. Hardly a beneovelent organisation, which incidently has ties to the Rockefellers.

To get a brief rundown of oil history with a slightly different slant ( and this includes the formation of the US board of education and the federal reserve... also it mentions the starting of the environmental movement which colaborates the words of Endghal ) you can look here :
Part 1
http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj050701-1.html
Part 2
http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj050701-2.html
Part 3
http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj050701-3.html
Part 4
http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj050701-4.html

It must be mentioned the above does not provide any links or referances. It would be a mistake to take his word for it on the accuracy of what he has written. ( please note that it is a pre-publication preview and I am presuming that the aformentioned missing referances will be provided when it is completed ) What you need to do is actually look up the information yourself indipendantly. You'll be quite suprised to find how accurate it is.

Look I will leave that be for now. I'll give those that are interested a little time to read the information provided.

Now as for saying that everywhere is at peak capacity. I disagree. In fact someone with a lot more business acumen than I will ever have is also of like mind.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/sep2005
/nf20050920_0695_db053.htm
( Sorry I got in trouble for posting a long link here previously so you'll need to copy and paste both lines in your address bar to bring up the link )

Notice that "Sir" Richard Branson says : "the world is short of up to 20 oil refineries, and the oil companies are not investing in new ones" In fact the US has not built one in 29 years. But of course that is because the oil comapnies know we are running out of oil isn't it. Yeh right !

Honestly much of history is not what it at first seems. To say it is a "conspiracy theory" at first seems an accurate depiction of such a thought. But when you really knuckle down and do some reading you will find that some of these so called conspiracy theories are not that far removed from truth, unfortunately.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'T')his is a response to a comment net-paw made in the Mike Lynch thread:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') also hate to burst your bubble but accepting the supposed simplicity of "peak oil" as being how much oil can you get out of the ground for x amount of dollars seems to me to be a little, well, silly. We all know and even blind freddy can see this, is that there is indeed a restricted amount of oil available. Yet how much of this due to lack of refining availablility ? Also when accepting the word of the oil companies there are other factors to consider. How about their stranglehold on publishing ? Their help and influence in forming our education systems ? Not only that but also their stranglehold on scientific funding?

[Dreamtwister]

Everyone seems to be overlooking something. Survival instinct.

They know oil is finite. We know oil is finite. Everyone knows oil is finite. What we *don't* know and they *do* know, is how much there actually is.

By sitting on that information, even denying that there's a problem, they improve their own chances of survival. Peak oil is a fact. It *will* happen. And when it does happen, people *will* die. People are already dying. Sitting on the truth for as long as possible improves their odds of not being one of the ones who dies. Robbing us blind while lying to us about it helps them even more.

Get out there and read some Machiavelli, Nietzche and maybe some Darwin. You will live longer.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'T')his is a response to a comment net-paw made in the Mike Lynch thread:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') also hate to burst your bubble but accepting the supposed simplicity of "peak oil" as being how much oil can you get out of the ground for x amount of dollars seems to me to be a little, well, silly. We all know and even blind freddy can see this, is that there is indeed a restricted amount of oil available. Yet how much of this due to lack of refining availablility ? Also when accepting the word of the oil companies there are other factors to consider. How about their stranglehold on publishing ? Their help and influence in forming our education systems ? Not only that but also their stranglehold on scientific funding?

[holmes]

where the fuck was everyone when I was trying to get the earthship biotechture put into our death march development spree. at least we could have had a good portion of the earth ready. its true the lobbying of the mainstream does not want any competition. thats been proven time and again. WHERE THE FUCK WAS EVERYONE WHEN THERE WAS A CHANCE to have at least some parts sustainable! Should have cut the taxes years ago and pushed a sustainable agenda. I know where I was talking to a stinking wall.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'I')f OPEC is "at capacity" and it's geologically and technically impossible for them to substantially increase their production, then what have they got to lose by opening up? The majors will just move in, waste a bunch of money trying to produce oil which isn't there, and leave. I don't get it. What are they being so protective of, if there's nothing there?

[oilfreeandhappy]

This thread seems to have gotten off course from the original title. The subsidies enjoyed by the auto and oil industries for so many years have resulted in an exponential type of growth of infrastructure to support their products. Every dollar taken out of General Fund revenue over the last 70 years is seen in this infrastructure. The roads don't go away. They simply continue to multiply and expand.
Jim
http://home.comcast.net/~oil_free_and_happy/

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', '
')
Sure smells to me too like someone has an agenda Spec.

[bobcousins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'T')he National Oil Companies of OPEC, on the other hand, have a clear motive for buying into peak oil. It gives them the perfect cover to jack up prices by loafing and restraining supply. Cheap oil isn't in their interest, and there's no way to undercut them anymore. They're sitting on most of the oil, and they're a cartel. That's the problem Lord Browne is referring to. That explains why he's anti peak oil, and likely to become even more so.