[jupiter422]

I need a rebutal on how we are not screwed.

With all of the local,economic,geo-political,and world wide trials and tribulations facing civilization.how are we not screwed!?

Lets see!!!

1.global warming
2.Peak oil.
3,economic crash.
4. a great great great depression.
5.avian bird flu.
6.war.
7.complete collapse of health care.
8.nuclear
9.overpopulation.

I just don't see ,how once shit begins to deteriate,How will things ever come back to a somewhat sense of normality.My mind cannot realisticly fathom any outcome other than total collapse followed by unforseen chaos.I also question ,as to what chance can any one indidvidual ,secure there own survival amidst such turmoil.I have been following the unfolding events and have watched the list of variables grow.The only conclusion I can come to is that we are screwed.I am 23 year years old I have a feeling depending on the length of my own survival I am going to see alot of people die!!Alot!!!

[jimk]

We are most certainly screwed. Actually we have always been screwed. We just manage to fool ourselves occasionally. I don't doubt that a privileged few will continue to be able to fool themselves into the indefinite future. Is it better to be a privileged fool? Depends on the alternative, of course.

Truth is, people have led rich and profoundly rewarding lives at BTU per annum rates far below the current US median. Of course, most folks probably never have. But what makes life worthwhile is really not how big a car you drive or the sweet pleasure of fresh pineapple in New York.

Take a look at the long bumpy ride of the decline of Rome. Yeah, given our new level of global interconnectedness, things will probably be bumpier this time. But really, it is not unreasonable to say that the downhill ride started with World War 1, in 1914. Sure, there have been many technological and social advances since then. I expect that in a hundred years you will still be able to find measuring sticks by which we'll have advanced by then from now. Probably not BTU per capita per annum!

Have things ever been "normal"? Not in my life, anyway. It seems like "normal" is always some Garden of Eden just a little further back in the past than the times we've studied with any care.

Nobody survives, that's how it is. Some folks make it to 100, some to 80, some don't hit 20. I'm 50 now & figure I am an old man - how many geniuses in the past had blossomed and died much younger than 50.

I would say: study history, study cultures around the world. Tough times are the norm. Study the lives of folks who have led rewarding lives in tough times.

Being awake is a burden and a privilege.

[Ludi]

What is considered "normal life" will change a great deal. Be adaptable.

But yeah, pretty darn screwed, yes, we are.

[The_Toecutter]

Screwed is a function of two things:

a) How we adress the problem
b) How much time we really have

If 'a' means to continue the status quo and 'b' means less than 5 years, then yes. Screwed sideways with a railroad tie.

If 'a' means a sudden change in economic policy along with voluntarily negating growth, then we could work just in time to offset the decline given at least 5 years for a rapid crash program to begin, or at least soften the blow. This is highly unlikely. The powers that be won't let it happen, nor have we even begun a transition at present. Too much money for that top 1% to make by forcing constant growth and consumption...

We could have started a decade ago. We could have in the meantime sacrificed 3 decades ago, waiting for the technology that would come in the 90s. We did niether of these things.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jimk', '
')I'm 50 now & figure I am an old man - how many geniuses in the past had blossomed and died much younger than 50.

[jimk]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '
') I'm 51 and I don't feel old at all yet.

[rogerhb]

The ol' glass full, glass empty!

It could be worse.....

[Tyler_JC]

First off, global warming?

Not a big deal. The decline of industrial civilization will reduce the amount of CO2 released in to the air. So PO might actually help us there.

A great, great, great depression?

In the worst parts of the Depression in the 30's, 75% of Americans who wanted a job had one. I'd say that's not too shabby, no?

Bird Flu?

Big F-ing deal. So we lose a couple million weak people. All for the glory of the gene pool. And besides, a flu epidemic would help cut down on overpopulation.

You say bird flu, I say BRING IT ON!

Nuclear, nuclear what?

Nuclear war?

Ok, so I get killed in half a second by a thermonuclear blast. Certainly sounds less painful than terminal bone cancer or dying in a knife fight. I would actually prefer to die in a nuclear war compared to some of the other possible ways to go.

Again, nuclear war? BRING IT ON!

Collapse of health care?

1. That would help us fix overpopulation!
2. Why will there be a collapse? Maybe for the very poor and very old. But for most healthy people, health care costs will actually go down. As the sick and elderly are killed off in the nuclear wars, bird flu outbreaks, and cold winters without heat, there will be far less demand for medical services. Simple economics, really.

You have to find a positive spin to bad news. Or snort a mixture of Valium and Zoloft. It's up to you to decide.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou have to find a positive spin to bad news. Or snort a mixture of Valium and Zoloft. It's up to you to decide.

[Jogger]

You left out a few things...

10) Asteroid impact
11) A super-volcano eruption, perhaps at Yellowstone National Park
12) Tsunamis
13) Eathquakes

And there are probably more possibilities...

[The_Toecutter]

The odds of yellowstone being a threat in our lifetime are slim. But an eruption will happen sometime between now and 500,000 years from now. Tsunamis, not so much to worry, maybe pockets of 90,000 people here and there in the worst cases, which rarely happen. Asteroid impact again unlikely, probably odds of a very devastating one being far less than a yellowstone eruption within the context of our own lifetimes. Earthquakes? We seem to be getting by fine, and those occur every day. The worst of them kill 20,000 or so, but those are in areas with poorly constructed buildings and that same quake in a developed nation might kill about as much as a tornado, worst case on par with Hurricane Katrina.

The issues in the original post will likely kill millions prematurely, perhaps even billions taken cumulatively and with near certainty over the next 50 years. A few of these issues are indeed killing millions each year as I type this. Peak oil and nuclear war are the biggies, with the potential to kill billions, nuclear war itself capable of wiping out the human race in its entirity, unlikely it may be in our lifetimes.

[Jogger]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'T')he odds of yellowstone being a threat in our lifetime are slim. But an eruption will happen sometime between now and 500,000 years from now. Tsunamis, not so much to worry, maybe pockets of 90,000 people here and there in the worst cases, which rarely happen. Asteroid impact again unlikely, probably odds of a very devastating one being far less than a yellowstone eruption within the context of our own lifetimes. Earthquakes? We seem to be getting by fine, and those occur every day. The worst of them kill 20,000 or so, but those are in areas with poorly constructed buildings and that same quake in a developed nation might kill about as much as a tornado, worst case on par with Hurricane Katrina.

The issues in the original post will likely kill millions prematurely, perhaps even billions taken cumulatively and with near certainty over the next 50 years. A few of these issues are indeed killing millions each year as I type this. Peak oil and nuclear war are the biggies, with the potential to kill billions, nuclear war itself capable of wiping out the human race in its entirity, unlikely it may be in our lifetimes.

[SinisterBlueCat]

O great creator of being
grant us one more hour to
perform our art
and perfect our lives

The moths and atheists are doubly divine
and dying
We live, we die
and death not ends it.

[PrairieMule]

The question is not are we screwed but should be are you screwed. You cannot save humanity from itself, but by taking care of your immediate family and a few random strangers perhaps humanity will evolve into something better. I think I'll start by trying to talk a few of you flat tires to back away from the ledge looking down to a very hard landing. First a short review of the Mule's code:PARA Preparation, Attunement, Relaxation, and Attitude, It's like 4 legs of a table. To many people focus on the preparation(gear,skills, fittness, financial) and to some degree attunement: that's good. You will never discover why the table is wobbling by focusing on only one of the one of the 4 legs.

The second item attunement, I'd say folks have a good sense of atunement but they are only seeing half the picture. Let's divide attunement into 2 sections Knowledge and Perception. You would not be on this site unless you had a measure of both(this is why I do not discount any of your capabilities), but lets take a look at your perception with a new type of filter. How is your situation compared to let's say a Nigerian, someone from Kosovo, Nicaragua? Although I think our country is very pro-gun we are not hardend to war and death. I think if the shooting starts and we americans actually see other americans with their brains spilled all over the pavement from a .45 round our perception on what we want and what we really need will change. I'm not talking about UN troops enforcing a police state I'm talking about pulling the trigger on your neighbor over a handfull of carrots and living with it. I think at that point folks see the reality of violence by our own hand will ellicit feelings not found by playing HALO 2. Go watch the movie The Trigger Effect and then go watch Hotel Rawanda. Both have a high level of tension but how does the violence compare?

When you think about a shooting war in America, apply that filter to your perception. Now, how does the long term future look now?

[jupiter422]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'T')he question is not are we screwed but should be are you screwed. You cannot save humanity from itself, but by taking care of your immediate family and a few random strangers perhaps humanity will evolve into something better. I think I'll start by trying to talk a few of you flat tires to back away from the ledge looking down to a very hard landing. First a short review of the Mule's code:PARA Preparation, Attunement, Relaxation, and Attitude, It's like 4 legs of a table. To many people focus on the preparation(gear,skills, fittness, financial) and to some degree attunement: that's good. You will never discover why the table is wobbling by focusing on only one of the one of the 4 legs.

The second item attunement, I'd say folks have a good sense of atunement but they are only seeing half the picture. Let's divide attunement into 2 sections Knowledge and Perception. You would not be on this site unless you had a measure of both(this is why I do not discount any of your capabilities), but lets take a look at your perception with a new type of filter. How is your situation compared to let's say a Nigerian, someone from Kosovo, Nicaragua? Although I think our country is very pro-gun we are not hardend to war and death. I think if the shooting starts and we americans actually see other americans with their brains spilled all over the pavement from a .45 round our perception on what we want and what we really need will change. I'm not talking about UN troops enforcing a police state I'm talking about pulling the trigger on your neighbor over a handfull of carrots and living with it. I think at that point folks see the reality of violence by our own hand will ellicit feelings not found by playing HALO 2. Go watch the movie The Trigger Effect and then go watch Hotel Rawanda. Both have a high level of tension but how does the violence compare?

When you think about a shooting war in America, apply that filter to your perception. Now, how does the long term future look now?

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou have to find a positive spin to bad news. Or snort a mixture of Valium and Zoloft. It's up to you to decide.

[PrairieMule]

Jup-

You are 23 years old and live in N. San Diego, I'll bet you do not have a mortgage? Look at everyone around you over 30. Most of them are all chained to a half million dollar mortgage on a 20yrd old house that is no longer energy efficient. They will never pay off their debts and some have built a "Perception" built on fragile deck of Financial cards. I know this because I look at their credit reports at work. You have youth and freedom.

[Schweinshaxe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'J')up-

You are 23 years old and live in N. San Diego, I'll bet you do not have a mortgage? Look at everyone around you over 30. Most of them are all chained to a half million dollar mortgage on a 20yrd old house that is no longer energy efficient. They will never pay off their debts and some have built a "Perception" built on fragile deck of Financial cards. I know this because I look at their credit reports at work. You have youth and freedom.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schweinshaxe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'J')up-

You are 23 years old and live in N. San Diego, I'll bet you do not have a mortgage? Look at everyone around you over 30. Most of them are all chained to a half million dollar mortgage on a 20yrd old house that is no longer energy efficient. They will never pay off their debts and some have built a "Perception" built on fragile deck of Financial cards. I know this because I look at their credit reports at work. You have youth and freedom.

[holmes]

Jup dont worry so much. the only Real problem I see right now is trying to get out of the shit-stem. Taxpayers who want to transition into an ecological paradigm are basically locked in and it will take many years minus the tax dollars stolen to get out and actually be ready to deal with things. were locked into the ponzi scheme and the ones benefitting big time dont want anyhting to do with letting us out early. that sucks really. its the ill take everyone down with me paradigm.