[Carlhole]

This demonstration by Alex Jones needs a rebuttal. And it seems right up SpecOp's alley, so take her away Spec...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('InfoWars', 'B')elow is a ten minute "see-for-yourself" report that conclusively shows that Vice President Dick Cheney's claims to Kennedy County Sheriff's Deputies in south Texas is a total fabrication.

A massive cover-up has been conducted concerning the shooting. We know that most of the facts that have been told to the public are manufactured frauds.

Cheney claims that he shot Whittington at 90 feet, ballistic tests from the spread of the shotgun pellets to their penetration depth is 100% conclusive.

Harry Whittington was shot at close range, between 15 and 18 feet, not the 90 claimed by Dick Cheney and the Secret Service. It is now clear why they refused to let Sheriff's Deputies interview Cheney for over 13 hours and why they claimed that Whittington's injuries were superficial when in truth they were grievous.

The mainstream media is ignoring this literal smoking gun evidence. Anytime they wish, the local police can conduct their own ballistics tests and they will have the exact same findings. The media can conduct their own tests. The ballistics of shotguns and birdshot is well known to tens of millions of Americans who hunt fowl.

We have now scientifically proved with an engineer and a police officer on-site conducting the test that the American people are being lied to and a cover-up is in progress.

[smallpoxgirl]

Looks like a pretty well conducted test with pretty reasonable conclusions to me. I'm not sure, really, how much difference it makes what the difference whether he was 90 feet or 18 feet away. Is he a dumb ass for shooting his hunting buddy? You bet. Negligent? I bet the guy could win a nice law suit. Probably won't get a conviction for criminal negligence though.

[Specop_007]

I took my phone off the hook. Had my 40 hours in on Tuesday and was in the office the rest of the week. Been a long week, and gotta go back for more later today.
Yay for overtime right?

The test isnt entirely valid, nor is it entirely invalid. First and foremost, I havent followed the whole incident that closely. As far as I see it, its another hunting accident. They happen EVERY year, the only reason anyone suddenly gives a shit is because it was the VP that had it. No one seems to give a damn if its Joe People that has it though, so I've been rather disgusted with the whole deal.

Anyways, its well established ballistic mediums are not a real world test for bullets. They give you a very good idea what might happen, what may happen and what should happen, but they fail to take into account things such as tissue density differences (fat, muscles, sinew), they dont take into account bones and organs....
In other words, they give you a good idea what happens, but it wont always be 100% exact science. People have in the past shot animals such as hogs to get a better idea what happens, or organs from animals and whatnot but the fact is you just cant say with 100% certainty what WILL happen by using ballistic gels as your basis of comparison.
But its close, so you dont entirely rule it out altogether.

They say they bought a 28 gauge, is that what Cheney was using? I would have thought he'd go with the 12 bore, but hey, who knows? Not me, I havent followed it. Additionally, what choke was Cheney using? Was Cheney using handloads? Cheney is a pretty experienced gun guy as I understand it, so he may have been using reloads. I dont know. Does anyone?

Ultimately though I see no glaring errors with the tests that were performed by this guy. Most of it, while not 100% reliable, are generally accepted as accurate.

Like I said, I havent followed it much because the whole issue disgusts me.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')hey say they bought a 28 gauge, is that what Cheney was using? I would have thought he'd go with the 12 bore, but hey, who knows?

[UncoveringTruths]

I just watched Mr. Wittington on cnn.

IMO to much bruising to be a 30 yd accident. IMO 30 feet or less. I bet it knocked the codger on his keester.

[UncoveringTruths]

[gary_malcolm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Like I said, I havent followed it much because the whole issue disgusts me.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('UncoveringTruths', ' ')I bet it knocked the codger on his keester.

[eric_b]

To provide a contrary POV, check out this little video...

http://www.caller2.com/specials/2006/gu ... index.html

This guy seems to think a .28 gauge at 90 feet was capable of causing
the damage.

Hell if I know.

I will say I think there's more to this entire thing than we're being told.
How about all those rumors Cheney was sauced at the time of the accident

(Not to mention the rumors of Bush doing nightcap shots of whiskey and
morning lines of coke in the White house. All I can do is laugh)

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', '(')Not to mention the rumors of Bush doing nightcap shots of whiskey and morning lines of cook in the White house. All I can do is laugh)

[UncoveringTruths]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('UncoveringTruths', ' ')I bet it knocked the codger on his keester.

[UncoveringTruths]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'First, it has enormous stopping power at short range, more than nearly all handguns and comparable to most rifle cartridges. The wide spread of shot produced by the gun makes it easier to aim and to be used by inexperienced marksmen. Also, unlike a rifle bullet, each pellet of shot is less likely to penetrate walls and hit bystanders. It is favored by law enforcement for its low penetration and high stopping power while many American households use it as a home defense weapon for the same reasons.')

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', '(')Not to mention the rumors of Bush doing nightcap shots of whiskey and morning lines of cook in the White house. All I can do is laugh)

[PrairieMule]

I don't buy the "single lead bullet". A slug in a 28 gauge is contradictory. Slugs are for knocking down big targets and blowing locks off of doors, no way it would be used on a 28 gauge. They are for 12 gauges and you can find them in the 20 gauge. I believe no such round exists. That would be as silly as a Geo Metro with a Tow package to move a horse trailer.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('UncoveringTruths', 'F')irst, it has enormous stopping power at short range

[seldom_seen]

A 28 guage is certainly no canon. It's used to take down little pigeons and quail. I'd put my money on the guy being real darn close rather than far away.

I don't see how that shot could penetrate the guys clothing with one piece of shot reaching near his heart at 90 feet away.

The guy had to be close.

Cheney is on all sorts of heart medication, most of which comes with warnings about not operating machinery. Combine that with a beer or two at lunch. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

The thing that really irks me is that we was poaching. heh. He wasn't even properly licensed to hunt quail in Texas. Couldn't bring himself to buy a 7 dollar quail stamp. Some may see that as a minor thing. It's very symbolic to me of the contempt for the law these people have.

[UncoveringTruths]

First hand experience, I shot a deer with 12 guage 00 Buckshot at 20 yards. Granted this is a much larger load than what we are discussing. The deer was 150#, said deer left its feet, and fell backward I stayed put.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'S')lugs are for knocking down big targets and blowing locks off of doors, no way it would be used on a 28 gauge.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('UncoveringTruths', ' ')I bet it knocked the codger on his keester.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'S')lugs are for knocking down big targets and blowing locks off of doors, no way it would be used on a 28 gauge.