[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

On the 9th of December 2005, a Denver woman is scheduled to be arraigned in U.S. District Court. Her crime: refusing to show ID on a public bus. At stake is nothing less than the right of Americans to travel freely in their
Own country.

The woman who is fighting the good fight is named Deborah Davis. She's a 50 year-old mother of four who lives and works in Denver, Colorado. Her kids are all grown-up: her middle son is a soldier fighting in Iraq.

One morning in late September 2005, Deb was riding the public bus to work. She was minding her own business, reading a book and planning for work, when a security guard got on this public bus and demanded that every passenger show their ID. Deb, having done nothing wrong, declined. The guard called in federal cops, and she was arrested and charged with federal criminal misdemeanors after refusing to show ID on demand.

She hasn't commuted by public bus since that day.

For further information, please visit:

http://www.papersplease.org/davis /

[Cynus]

The war on terror should be fought at the borders, not in the streets. Make sure no one is getting in the country illegally and we can have our civil liberties and security too. Instead we've decided to have neither.

[FoxV]

well the fines will probably hold because she did refuse to show ID to a police officer which is against the law in every country.

However, what idiot planner puts a public bus route through the middle of a secured (gated) area. And what stupid security director allows a public bus through their area. What most people do is such cases is have a bus stop at the gate, and a shuttle inside the gate if the area is large.

depending on how eager her lawyer is to make a statement, she probably has a good case against the city for damages/negligence over the path of the bus route

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

For one thing he was just a security guard. and not every country makes you show your papers. In Canada we have the right to refuse, Most cops won't force the issue and will only ask to see ID if they have cause becuase they know better.

[gnm]

Actually FoxV we are not required to show ID to a police officer just because he wants to see it. The only requirement is that you not lie to a police officer. And refusal to answer is ok too (see 4th/5th amendments). I would have told them to pound sand....

-G

[hull3551]

Yeah, it’s great that all these measures are being taken to address the fear of terrorism, and not terrorism itself. I am amazed that people sit by and let this happen. It makes sense now to some, but wait until you’re sitting in the coffee shop at the wrong time and get caught up in a sweep and held without charge or bail. Wrong place, wrong time.

I was reading how the FBI is hiring contractors to assist with surveillance of possible “threats” while the Patriot Act is still enforcable, including reporters, bloggers, etc. I am sure there’s some visitation here by Big Brother, as many of the views are though provoking and against those of true American patriots. Yeah, right.

[lakeweb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hull3551', 'Y')eah, it’s great that all these measures are being taken to address the fear of terrorism...

[Aaron]

I thought that the US Supream Court ruled that the police can demand ID.

[ashurbanipal]

Yeah, it's my understanding that the states have laws on their books that require a person to show a state-issued ID to a police officer who asks. The reasoning is that state-issued ID's in the form of driver's licenses or ID cards are services that the state provides. Not that I necessarily agree, but that's the justification.

[lakeweb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'I') thought that the US Supream Court ruled that the police can demand ID.

[OneLoneClone]

It's too late to stop this kind of thing. The end of privacy is really already here. Each community accepts the loss of privacy in exchange for increased security, every time, all over the country.

Our national ID cards (standardized, electronically readable driver's licenses) have already been approved for rollout in 2008. Its all legal, your reps voted for it. Once all the card readers are in place everywhere its going to be a breeze to 'profile' us and track our movements. This profiling is already ocurring (as the WashPost link in the previous post shows), it will just make it easier.
Next up; RFID tags in passports, then in National ID if the State Department gets their way. Networked cameras, RFID readers, combined with modern 'profiling' techniques will give the government (and the credit companies) incredible new tools for the control and tracking of the population. China already has RFID in their IDs, we are still playing catchup.

ASKING to see your papers will be so passe. They will just scan everyone as you enter public transit, shops, and pass by certain 'chokepoints' in the urban landscape. If we resist the feds will claim they need the powers in case of needing to track the spread of Bird Flu contagion (and it WOULD be helpfull for that).

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'I') thought that the US Supream Court ruled that the police can demand ID.

[gnm]

Right - They can if you are in a car. Because remember you only have the "right" to travel in the "common conveyance of the day" which they still define as horse and buggy. Driving a motor vehicle is a "privelege" that nanny government can take away......

She probably won't win this one because of the federal facility argument unfortunately. What a load of crap.

oh and yeah your driver lic is already a national id - why else would it require a FEDERAL SSN to get? For those of you outside the US - SSN stands for "Slave Serial Number"


-G

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'S')he probably won't win this one because of the federal facility argument unfortunately. What a load of crap.

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lakeweb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hull3551', 'Y')eah, it’s great that all these measures are being taken to address the fear of terrorism...

[sventvkg]

Facisim...We are already there. The corporations control the government and they are essentially in bed together for their benefit. We ARE in NAZI Germany. We need to start doing something about it. FAST.

[shakespear1]

A fitting song for this thread would be one done by David Bowie

"This is not America" for the movie "The Falcon and the Snowman" (1985)

[Starvid]

Relax people.

The world is not ending.

In Sweden all citizens are registered with a special number, called the "Personal number".

It is yymmdd-xxxx, that is the six first characters show date of birth and the last four show place of birth, sex and a control number.

It works well and there is no government abuse. It helps the bureaucracy a lot.

We have another thing too, called the "Public principle". It states that all government papers and information is public, except if it has been specially defined as secret. The opposite is true in many other countries where everything is secret except what has been specially defined as public.

Both these innovations work very well.

[shakespear1]

The issue is not the ID, but how the information is used and WHO has access to this information, where the information goes. At his point I as a citizen start to lose control over my "private info". I do not know who has it , is it correct etc.

That is the Issue

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he issue is not the ID, but how the information is used and WHO has access to this information, where the information goes. At his point I as a citizen start to lose control over my "private info". I do not know who has it , is it correct etc.

That is the Issue