[Aaron]

Pfft... you should have known better...


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') California congressman, saying there's no easy solution to the huge heating bills facing many people this winter, wants to make it cheaper to cut firewood in national forests.

Although that's unlikely to aid millions of urban households or those with no federal forest nearby, Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Calif., says, "Every bit helps."

Pombo introduced legislation Tuesday that would waive the $10 to $15 fee the government charges per cord. A cord is a stack 4 feet wide, 4 feet high and 8 feet long.

"Rural American families who depend on firewood to heat their homes will be hit just as hard as those who use oil and natural gas," Pombo said in a news release.

High heating bills are forecast this winter because of the soaring cost of fuel oil and natural gas.

[Raxozanne]

LOL Aaron, when I saw your name next to the word hope I nearly choked on my lunch!

[Peakoil_Tarzan]

Pombo is a corrupt jackass -- bought and paid for by anyone with a few $$$ to put into his campaign fund.

$10 or $15 per cord is not likely to break anyone. In fact, it is ridiculously cheap. In most of the Eastern US, a cord of hardwood would run you $100 to $150 -- probably considerably more in metropolitan areas.

I don't know what the productivity of forest lands in Pombo's district is, but it would take 50 years to grow that cord of wood here in the Eastern US. How can you determine that something that takes 50 years to produce has essentially no value?

[NEOPO]

what a tease!!!!

[aahala]

There must be some reason we are charging the fee now, either we don't
want even more of our forrests chopped down, or a minor crowd reduction.
Free anything brings out the Thanksgiving Day mob.

I would be in favor of raising the fee a bit, because obviously it's a much
better deal as is than it was six months ago and if we don't, many more
people might start doing it.

[SurvivalAcres]

I have cut firewood for many years. My only source of heat is firewood.

I am surrounded by millions of acres of forest, land which lies fallow most of the time, except when there is a timber sale. Timber sales produce a huge amount of left over wood, much of it is good for firewood.

The Forest Service restricts wood cutting for firewood in many areas. These areas have millions of tons of wood that just rots on the ground. This applies to timber harvested areas (logging of all types) and non-timbered harvested areas. Burned over areas are also often restricted from cutting, where millions acres simply rot. Some of this burned over area is harvested for timber, but usually it's a small percentage of the total burned area.

What REALLY burns my britches is the so-called management of the forests, which often includes simply burning thousands of acres at a time. I am not talking about wildfires. I am talking about the "controlled burn" where they simply destroy everything by deliberately setting fires. This destroys all of the overgrowth and all of the trees. These blackened areas are man-induced and horrible eyesores lasting decades. You are oftnetimes not allowed to cut firewood from the blackenend trees either.

Another "practice" by the Forest Service is to simply cut down all the trees they don't like, in order to make room for other species. This is how they do it: they will cut down tens of thousands of trees and let them fall to the ground and rot. They don't pick them up (oftentimes), they don't burn the slash and they don't let you come in and cut the now dead trees for firewood. These areas are so choked with fallen trees that you cannot walk through them without great difficulty.

I am deeply disappointed in the so-called management of our forests by the FS. Not only have the arbitrarily blocked off tens of thousands of miles of roads (which they themselves still drive on, but nobody else can), they deem much of the wood laying on the ground isn't available - to anyone.

And their "timber sales" - don't get me started on that one. Greed, gluttony and destruction.

I am fully aware of the impact humans cause who visit these areas. But what is happening is the areas that are still "available" for public use (because some fat-assed grossly overpaid bureaucrat said so) are being overused.

You can be arrested or ticketed for picking up a stick, a rock, a plant, anything in the national forest (and I think National parks too).

I no longer bother to buy a permit "asking permission" to harvest what is rightfully mine (it's public property). I refuse to support the FS in any way. I take only what I need, I clean up my mess if cutting firewood and I don't venture off the roads with my truck.

[frankthetank]

Considering how many acres go up in flames every year (I realize it does have positives), why not cut them down before it gets to that point?

Selective harvesting or something. I never knew it took 50yrs to produce a cord? We better start planting now!

ABout 98% Politicians are corrupt...

[Leanan]

I have a feeling this is going to be a hot issue as the energy situation worsens. Firewood was already in tight supply in many areas in the northeast, and high oil and natural prices are prompting more and more people to buy wood-burning stoves.

Is it going to be like feudal times, where shooting a deer or gathering firewood in the king's forest gets you the death penalty? Or like Easter Island, where the "tragedy of the commons" played out in full, and resulted in every tree being exterminated?

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SurvivalAcres', 'T')he Forest Service restricts wood cutting for firewood in many areas. These areas have millions of tons of wood that just rots on the ground.

[Leanan]

Good point. It's not like trees that aren't harvested are "wasted." Rotting wood is an essential part of a forest ecosystem. And removing wood from the forest removes nutrients. Unless you return the ashes.

In his book Collapse, Jared Diamond discusses a society that dealt with "peak firewood" by finding a species of tree that grows very quickly, and farming it. "Sylviculture," he called it. Seems like we should be doing something similar. Now, while we can.

[gnm]

Out here in the west, FS policies on suppressing natural forest fires for decades have caused massive overgrowth and subsequent sickening of forests. There is nothing wrong with selective woodcutting. In fact it should be encouraged. It doesn't take 50 years to grow a cord unless you are planning on growing it all on 1 oak tree. I am on about 3 acres and it grows an estimated 2 cords a year just on my land (estimate by biologist friend). This is a heavily overgrown area. As a result we have had plaugues of bark beetles and the like which have in some areas killed up to 80% of the trees. Those areas badly need to be thinned. No problem to leave a few of the bigger standing dead for birds etc... and the slash can be burned or mulched. There have been small areas here where the FS has done some selectuve thinning that worked out pretty good but it is hugely labor intensive. They usually use prisioners to do it (something about prisioners with chainsaws bothers me). Being that I am in New Mexico I really don't have anything nice to say about thier "controlled" burn policies. Los Alamos/Cerro Grande anyone? They apparently were trying to burn half the state down...

-G

[ararboin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nother "practice" by the Forest Service is to simply cut down all the trees they don't like, in order to make room for other species. This is how they do it: they will cut down tens of thousands of trees and let them fall to the ground and rot. They don't pick them up (oftentimes), they don't burn the slash and they don't let you come in and cut the now dead trees for firewood. These areas are so choked with fallen trees that you cannot walk through them without great difficulty.

[aahala]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SurvivalAcres', '
')
I no longer bother to buy a permit "asking permission" to harvest what is rightfully mine (it's public property).

[SurvivalAcres]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') hate it when wood turns into organic fertilizer and don't get me started about standing dead trees--how dare they provide food for animals and birds?

[Peakoil_Tarzan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'I')t doesn't take 50 years to grow a cord unless you are planning on growing it all on 1 oak tree. I am on about 3 acres and it grows an estimated 2 cords a year just on my land (estimate by biologist friend).

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hich is more environmentally friendly? Take what is locally available, or drive 50 - 100 miles per load?

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') rather suspect that people choosing between food and heat, aren't gonna give a flying rat's ass if it's Eco-friendly or not.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 't')he real effects of $40 oil were finally reaching the rest of the economy right now because of the long lead times in global economies.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Peakoil_Tarzan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'I')t doesn't take 50 years to grow a cord unless you are planning on growing it all on 1 oak tree. I am on about 3 acres and it grows an estimated 2 cords a year just on my land (estimate by biologist friend).

[Peakoil_Tarzan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'I') think we are looking at different sides of the same coin -