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Oil firms' profits too high

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Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby coyote » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:10:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')il firms' profits too high
Public Policy; Political and Legal News
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has demanded hearings for energy company officials to face questioning. Sen. Byron Dorgan is leading the Democrats' response. The North Dakotan has introduced legislation allowing for three years a 50 percent excise levy on oil companies' profits when the price of crude oil exceeds $40 a barrel. There is provision made in the bill for the companies to avoid the tax by the amount they invest their profits in producing energy by drilling for oil or natural gas, building new oil refineries or producing renewable energy forms. The proceeds would be rebated to consumers under Dorgan's plan.

Bismarck Tribune


Does anyone else think this is a draconian response? I'm not a huge fan of the oil companies myself, but I think the fact that they're applying their profits to buy back shares is a reasonable preparation for possible future slim years. Remember the nineties were a nervous decade for this industry, with a lot of smaller oil companies going out of business. The industry hasn't forgotten that.

I think this is just another example of politicians' decisions being driven by political pressure from a lot of upset voters who are pretty thoroughly unaware of the real issues. Applying the windfall tax revenues to customer rebate paybacks has the net effect of forcing the American oil companies to sell cheaper. The equivalent of a price cap. It will make them even less able to compete with the big oil producing nations.

Why give the oil companies a huge amount of pork money with an idiotic energy bill, then turn around and take it away again with a windfall profits tax? Today's politics seem more and more insane to me. :(

If they are going to do something like this, then how about applying the tax revenue to alternative energy investments? That would at least make some sense.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby Specop_007 » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:12:56

Thats so damned stupid. Only a Democrat would be against capitalism. :x
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:27:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')hats so damned stupid. Only a Democrat would be against capitalism. :x


Yeah, heh-heh, if only that were true... :roll:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ast week, Senate Budget Committee Chairman Judd Gregg, R-N.H., called for a windfall profits tax that could be used to assist low income residents pay their heating bills this winter. And on Tuesday, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, sent a letter to industry trade groups calling on them to donate a portion of their profits to low income heating assistance programs. Link to article


Quit being a douche, Spec. There's enough blame to go around.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby fossilnut2 » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:36:07

The energy industry is global. The USA doesn't have the means to control energy prices or energy company profits. All the government of the USA can do is fiddle around the edges and try to handcuff those companies that operate in the USA. Any clouds overhanging future profits will just drive decision making and companies out of the USA.

The American energy industry is incredibly efficient both in securing supply and in delivery. It's very rare the light doesn't go on when a switch if flipped or there's no gasoline at the station or natural gas doesn't reach your furnace.

Success should be praised and not punished.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby Eli » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:37:21

If oil hits a 100 dollars a barrel I guess the US will turn into a socialist state with free health care. Free Health care that sounds nice.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby MacG » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:38:40

Well, well, so much for the "free market" then. It's not even a 180 degree turn, it's an immediate instinct.

This "market" thing is nice and cozy as long as there are surpluses sloshing around. And it's good for "nice to have's" like Rolex watches. But "the market" is a mean bitch when it come to necessities, telling everyone "let the poor starve and freeze if they dont have money".

In medieval European history, those conditions brought out crowds, torches and pitchforks, putting effective limits on feudal lords.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:44:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'W')ell, well, so much for the "free market" then. It's not even a 180 degree turn, it's an immediate instinct.


We're fucking hypocrites - period. We don't bat an eye when a house appraises for 50% more in a given year. In fact, we declare that American capitalism and the free market are the best in the world! Then we promptly sell that house, make a small fortune and move on to the next 'big deal,' always forgetting that we're screwing someone in the end.

This entitlement mentality has got to go. Nobody's entitled to anything except their basic rights. Anything else is cheap oil-driven gravy.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby Leanan » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:49:02

Capitalism is not going to survive peak oil. Commerce, certainly, capitalism - no. Capitalism requires constant growth, and that cannot be supported on finite resources.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby fossilnut2 » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:57:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '.') But "the market" is a mean bitch when it come to necessities, telling everyone "let the poor starve and freeze if they dont have money".


I don't know what areas you've travelled in the USa but the poor are the least starving. The Surgeon General is more alarmed by the fact that poorer an American is the more they eat and the fatter they are. Or, are you advocating socialism... resulting in a food shortage and higher prices as a health benefit to the poor? The more food costs, the less is eaten and people are healthier?
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby MacG » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 17:01:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('fossilnut2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '.') But "the market" is a mean bitch when it come to necessities, telling everyone "let the poor starve and freeze if they dont have money".


I don't know what areas you've travelled in the USa but the poor are the least starving. The Surgeon General is more alarmed by the fact that poorer an American is the more they eat and the fatter they are. Or, are you advocating socialism... resulting in a food shortage and higher prices as a health benefit to the poor? The more food costs, the less is eaten and people are healthier?


Dont advocate anything. Just watching. With big round eyes. Call me "Forrest Gump"
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby pilferage » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 17:07:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')hats so damned stupid. Only a Democrat would be against capitalism. :x

Capitalism? Where?
:P
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby Specop_007 » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 17:21:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')hats so damned stupid. Only a Democrat would be against capitalism. :x


Yeah, heh-heh, if only that were true... :roll:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ast week, Senate Budget Committee Chairman Judd Gregg, R-N.H., called for a windfall profits tax that could be used to assist low income residents pay their heating bills this winter. And on Tuesday, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, sent a letter to industry trade groups calling on them to donate a portion of their profits to low income heating assistance programs. Link to article


Quit being a douche, Spec. There's enough blame to go around.


First, by your qoute a Republican called for them to donate money, nothing more.
Secondly, I dont mean Democrat or Republican as in who you vote for. I mean Democrat or Republican in how they act. A Republican would not want to have government controls on free trade. Now just cause someone says their Republican doesnt mean they dont hold Democratic beliefs.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 17:42:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')hats so damned stupid. Only a Democrat would be against capitalism. :x


Yeah, heh-heh, if only that were true... :roll:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ast week, Senate Budget Committee Chairman Judd Gregg, R-N.H., called for a windfall profits tax that could be used to assist low income residents pay their heating bills this winter.


First, by your qoute a Republican called for them to donate money, nothing more.
Secondly, I dont mean Democrat or Republican as in who you vote for. I mean Democrat or Republican in how they act. A Republican would not want to have government controls on free trade. Now just cause someone says their Republican doesnt mean they dont hold Democratic beliefs.


Re-read that quote. Judd Gregg (R) called for a windfall profits tax, e.g. not a donation. Also, shouldn't the line be drawn at liberal vs. conservative and not democrat vs. republican? Republicans are not much better than their Democrat counterparts at keeping the market 'free' - you need look no further than the military-industrial complex, or the subsidies of the oil, real estate, auto and airline industries for examples of these.
Last edited by emersonbiggins on Fri 04 Nov 2005, 17:46:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby Specop_007 » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 17:49:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')
Re-read that quote. Judd Gregg (R) called for a windfall profits tax, e.g. not a donation.


DOH! Reading comprehension > me

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lso, shouldn't the line be drawn at liberal vs. conservative and not democrat vs. republican? Republicans are not much better than their Democrat counterparts at keeping the market 'free' - you need look no further than the military-industrial complex, or the subsidies of the oil, auto and airline industries for examples of these.


Yes, I should have said liberal and conservative instead.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 17:54:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Yes, I should have said liberal and conservative instead.


You know with the twin deficits we're running now, Reagan must be spinning in his grave. :o

If you ask me, the deficit-spending wackos we have now are of the worst kind: their brand of socialism is taking from the taxpayers (well, actually, future taxpayers) and giving it to the corporations. Infuriating.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby aahala » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 18:01:52

It's great to see the Republicans and Democrats finally coming together.

They've found an issue they both can demagoge and on the same
side even. :)
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby fossilnut2 » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 18:13:25

[quote="emersonbiggins
If you ask me, the deficit-spending wackos we have now are of the worst kind: their brand of socialism is taking from the taxpayers (well, actually, future taxpayers) and giving it to the corporations. Infuriating.[/quote]

There was an election in 2000 and Americans elected (well sort of) this President. More to the point, there was an election 4 years later and the American people quite voluntarily elected him again (and a Republican Senate & Congress).

George junior wasn't a mystery in 2004. If George had run in my country he'd have rec'd about 10% of the vote and about the same in most other democratic countries in the world. The Americans haven't had anything 'taken' by this regime but twice quite willingly (and shockingly to most of the world) 'given' resources, freedom (and their sanity) up to this regime.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 18:18:10

*pd*
Last edited by emersonbiggins on Fri 04 Nov 2005, 18:22:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 18:18:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('fossilnut2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')If you ask me, the deficit-spending wackos we have now are of the worst kind: their brand of socialism is taking from the taxpayers (well, actually, future taxpayers) and giving it to the corporations. Infuriating.


The Americans haven't had anything 'taken' by this regime but twice quite willingly (and shockingly to most of the world) 'given' resources, freedom (and their sanity) up to this regime.


He didn't get this ol boy's vote twice. I voted for him in '00, I'll admit.
And remember, while he is president, 48% of America voted against him. That's hardly a mandate, no matter how you spin it. We all forget the reason that Clinton rarely cracked the mid-40s yet won the presidency is because of a numbnuts named Ross Perot, who won 19% of the vote in 1992. But that's for another thread...
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Re: Oil firms' profits too high

Unread postby coyote » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 18:29:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('fossilnut2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '.') But "the market" is a mean bitch when it come to necessities, telling everyone "let the poor starve and freeze if they dont have money".


I don't know what areas you've travelled in the USa but the poor are the least starving. The Surgeon General is more alarmed by the fact that poorer an American is the more they eat and the fatter they are. Or, are you advocating socialism... resulting in a food shortage and higher prices as a health benefit to the poor? The more food costs, the less is eaten and people are healthier?


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 093925.htm :(
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