[PeakKYJelly]

Someone here has the tagline: "Annoy a conservative - help the poor". That is incorrect. What conservatives don't like is when the government puts a gun to people's heads and tells them "You have to fork over x% of your income in order to help the poor." If individuals helped the poor out of their own volition, then they would require less assistance from the government, which means people's taxes would go down, which would make conservatives happy. So individuals helping the poor actually makes conservatives happy! And it pisses off liberals, because they demand the government provide everything for free to everyone.

[medicvet]

Helping out the poor outside of a faith based org. does piss them off tho..I help out a poor person on an individual basis everytime I can, and will hear a lot of 'they are going to take you' or 'they are going to waste the money' and other such bs ..and I tell them right back "I don't care, it's my money to do with as I see fit, and that's what I choose to do with it."

I am amazed that it is more conservatives than liberals that are pissed off at that..actually, no, I'm not. What really gets their goat is when I give my money to a panhandler..I can almost garuntee there will be a lecture from some conservative if I do that about how the money will go to alchohol and/or drugs.

Do you know what? I DON'T CARE! ONCE AGAIN, IT'S MY MONEY, AND THAT'S HOW I WANT TO GIVE IT!

Once the money leaves my hands, it is theirs now to do with however they want.

Funny thing how people talk about agressive panhandlers. I will either give if I have it, what I can afford, or will strike up a convo with them, expressing regret on how I can't help out, but hope they are hangin in there..I may have met some that started out 'agressive' but never one that ended that way. Once a person realizes that I see them as just that, a PERSON, I don't and never have had any problems.

Of course the days when that will happen are not as often for me anymore, because I rarely go to the city that often, but when I lived in Ventura, there were a lot of panhandlers. I knew most of the regulars by name, and I would always stop and chat.

I think what most of them need more than anything else is to be treated like human beings.

There. There is your 'liberal retort' for the day.

[rogerhb]

The signs at the railway stations will change from "Don't feed the pigeons" to "Don't feed the poor", for exactly the same reason, it only encourages them.

I was amused to see that Americans don't like public transport because poor people use it to. Get used to it, what makes you think you aren't going to become one of them.

[PeakKYJelly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'T')he signs at the railway stations will change from "Don't feed the pigeons" to "Don't feed the poor", for exactly the same reason, it only encourages them.

I was amused to see that Americans don't like public transport because poor people use it to. Get used to it, what makes you think you aren't going to become one of them.

[Hawkcreek]

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[Ludi]

I don't have a problem with panhandlers using the money I give them for drugs or alcohol, if that's what they need to get through their day.

I don't have a problem with giving my tax money to the poor. If I don't want my taxes to go to the poor, I should work less so I pay fewer taxes.

[rogerhb]

Post deleted because misread the previous message

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '
')Or you could respect the wishes of the majority in a democracy.

Ranting, raving and gnashing your teeth doesn't do your blood pressure any good and requires more trips to the dentist.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')ho's ranting and raving?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')ho's ranting and raving?

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakKYJelly', 'I')f you think Americans don't like public transport because of the poor people who use it, you haven't been to America.

[Wildwell]

Capitalism shifts money up the society ladder. If you have money, it’s easy to make a lot more. If you don’t have money, you’ll find it quite hard to get on and make more – unless of course you are lucky enough to come into some.

If rich people had their way, they would pay for their own Education and Health, transport, housing and just about everything else – they often do. Rich people don’t need public services.

The poor would be left to rot and they originally were in England at any rate. The chartists, unionists and Tolpuddle martyrs (among others) took direct and indirect action. Some of them turned to crime just to live. This was the way people gained rights, they weren’t just handed on a plate - it quickly become obvious to the bourgeoisie and aristocracy (and evident from the French revolution) that things had to change for the capitalist system to survive.

So while in a black and white world, while it’s a wonderful idea that every individual should be fully self-sufficient, you still need people to empty the garbage, do the hard manual work, the means of production – the poor - in order to capitalise on assets and knowledge, thus the poor will always need to be looked after for the system to survive. Moreover a million dollars wouldn’t be worth a million dollars if everyone had that money.

Public transport (which also includes the heavily subsidised [US] plane system) is a natural battle ground. Transport makes the economy happen and each mode of transport has its advantages and disadvantages. As capitalism has produced a large population, for which time is important, the private car, which happens to be one of the least efficient movers of people around, and a favourite for individuals, has run into problems by design. As the lower classes have become progressively rich enough to afford their own transport they filled up the road system. As capitalism and democracy is individualistic by its nature, naturally this causes assorted lip biting and frustration. It needs controled but control and alternatives are resisted, unless they are sufficiently attractive.

Planes while fast and efficient in the age of oil, may soon get abandoned should a cheaper (or less subsidised) methods of transport comes along. For that is capitalisms nature.

[PeakKYJelly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'Y')ou see, it is already working. I give a small percentage of my income to the poor, and it is annoying KY enough to start a brand new thread on it!!

[Hawkcreek]

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[PeakKYJelly]

It's the idea that conservatives don't like it when an individual helps the poor that is annoying. How about we do this: Only liberals pay the taxes for the poor's health, education, and housing, since they pretend to care so much, and conservatives don't pay any taxes for that? Would that be okay with you? Since you pretend to care so much for others, it shouldn't bother you that you shoulder the tax burden for the poor.

[Pops]

It never ceases to amaze me how well Rove and Rush and all the rest have convinced working-poor and middle class white men that the best way to allay their fears - and the fact, of losing ground economically (and by association their masculinity) is to support a party that is pro-war (using those same poor and middle-class men’s kids) pro-corporation, anti-worker and anti-safety-net.

The rich are getting richer and the middle-class is getting poorer – and they both vote the same way; how ironic is that?

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '.')..pro-corporation, anti-worker and anti-safety-net.

[Pops]

That's true, then throw in a good enemy or 2 and you're a shoe-in.

[PeakKYJelly]

Yeah, the middle class, whose houses keep rising in value 20% a year; that sure is a sign of poverty.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakKYJelly', 'Y')eah, the middle class, whose houses keep rising in value 20% a year; that sure is a sign of poverty.