[Chuckmak]

liberals = communists.
conservatives = fascists.

it's that easy, folks. well, in my eyes it is.

liberals want a welfare state.
conservatives want a police state.

i'm a moderate. i like to see both sides of the issue before i make a decision. there needs to be more people like me.

</end random thought of the day>

[I_Like_Plants]

What about those who want a Folkish state? Remember the Nazis were fascists but were really uber-liberals.

The words have no meaning. Someone needs to do an analysis of politics the way the Technocracy movement has for economics. A rational theory of politics would need lots of input from and basing on, genetic interests such as Richard Dawkins writes about.

[Bas]

LOL, am I glad to live in a pluralist political country, we have like more than 10 political parties!! also, the biggest right wing party here are the Liberals

my theory then.

America = fascist
Europe = communist

[Jack]

So, if we get a police state, will there be free doughnuts for everyone?

[I_Like_Plants]

I would say the US is fascist in the same way the old USSR and Yugoslavia were, the iron hand of government trying to force people together who have no desire to live together, and a general trend of punishing the most productive and creative. And like those failed regimes, many think the US will split up too. This is why I've moved from southern california to northern, the bay area. Right now I'm at the southern edge of what www.isteve.com thinks will be the white homeland (the pacific northwest, and the northern regions of the US in general. The blacks will form their own empire in the southeast, and the hispanics will get their Aztlan, the southwest and southern california - it will be a miserable place too lol)

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'L')OL, am I glad to live in a pluralist political country, we have like more than 10 political parties!! also, the biggest right wing party here are the Liberals

my theory then.

America = fascist
Europe = communist

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'I') would say the US is fascist in the same way the old USSR and Yugoslavia were, the iron hand of government trying to force people together who have no desire to live together, and a general trend of punishing the most productive and creative. And like those failed regimes, many think the US will split up too. This is why I've moved from southern california to northern, the bay area. Right now I'm at the southern edge of what www.isteve.com thinks will be the white homeland (the pacific northwest, and the northern regions of the US in general. The blacks will form their own empire in the southeast, and the hispanics will get their Aztlan, the southwest and southern california - it will be a miserable place too lol)

[Bas]

funny thing is, Europe will grow together ever more closely. Despite the diffrent languages here, somehow we share the same political ideas, much more than diffrent Americans share the same political ideas, resulting in a much less politcally polarized climate in every single European country.

[gego]

I have a simple political view also.

Government is the opposite of freedom.

[Bas]

government is law is justice (to a good extend anyway)

[Riddick]

All generalizations are false.

[seahorse]

Bas,

The evidence of Europe growing together is overwhelming and growing, literally, everday. Look how the French rejected the EU constitution. Before you know it, all Europeans will speak the same language.

Chuckmak,

Its easy to pick a label for youself when you haven't taken a position on any political issue. So, as a moderate, where do you stand on the Iraqi war, picking a replacement for Justice Oconner, euthansia, Brady Bill, allowing the Patriot Act to lapse, Base closings, the Senate Fillibuster rule, drilling in Alaska or off the coast of California (need I say abortion?). You tell us where you stand on these and all the other issues, and then we'll brand you appropriately. The point is, everyone sees themselves as being mainstream, surprise, surprise - but its how we see you that counts. So, maybe, just maybe, you'll get our vote for president.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'I') have a simple political view also.

Government is the opposite of freedom.

[killJOY]

Liberals want to conserve, but conservatives want neo-liberalism.







Go figure.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he evidence of Europe growing together is overwhelming and growing, literally, everday. Look how the French rejected the EU constitution. Before you know it, all Europeans will speak the same language.

[gego]

Maybe we should all respond to seahorse's questions.

Here are mine:

1. War in Iraq - Illegal invasion of another nation state, same as Hitler invading Poland.
2. Replacing Oconner - Try Future of Freedom's Jacob Hornberger, a Libertarian. Isn't one of the stated purposes of creating the US government to insure the blessings of liberty. The present and most past courts have failed at preserving this ideal.
3. Euthansia - A universal right I favor.
4. Brady Bill - Violation of Second Amendment & a stupid, ineffective violation of the human right to self defense.
5. Allowing Patriot act to Lapse - Favor the end to this domestic government terrorism. Its authors should be tried for treason. Lets get rid of other government terrorism like the income, estate and gift taxes also.
6. Base closings - Do it. What about constitutional requirement to not keep a standing army?
7. Senate Fillibuster rule - At least fillibuster slows down the thugs that call themselves our government.
8. Drilling in Alaska - Drill away.
9. Abortion - In favor of, but government should not pay for it or require it, nor should government pay for medical cost for people to have babies either.

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', 'L')iberals want to conserve, but conservatives want neo-liberalism.







Go figure.

[seahorse]

I was being sarcastic on the Europe coming together idea.

[El_Producto]

1. War in Iraq - Take em down, saddam was a peice of shit. Sure, we funded him, but pencils have erasers.
2. Replacing Oconner - I really have no opinion on this...I dont really follow the supreme court.
3. Euthansia - Sick shit, but I'm not really opposed.
4. Brady Bill - What gego said.
5. Allowing Patriot act to Lapse - I'm holding my fingers and crossing my toes.
6. Base closings - Will wreck the local economy if the Airbase is closed. None the less, i'm not about to suggest the military should be interfered with its internal affairs. As for reducing the overall size of the Armed Forces...would be a grave mistake.
7. Senate Fillibuster rule - Retarded.
8. Drilling in Alaska - Why the hell not? It won't do a damn thing to affect peak, but I suppose 500k b/d won't hurt.
9. Abortion - Murder in my opinion, but I dont feel strongly either way.

[EnergySpin]

Seahorse, just because of the rejection there might start coming together.
Let's see why that might happen:
1) Self-sufficient and wide diversification in economies i.e. Scandinavian North is high tech (telecomm), central EU engineering (nuclear engineering, space industry, satellite), Southern EU states (agriculture), renewable energy potential in the North (wind) and South (solar+biomass)
2) Expanded rail based transportation and sea based transportation
3) Populations that tend to be more sympathetic of the idea of a central government and intervention than otherwise
4) Social capital seems to be more intact in europe than here (unfortunately)
5) Expanded university and technical education in science and engineering. The Framework Programmes in Research have fostered cooperation of teams among different countries enhancing the formation of network of excellence. Too bad that NSF has focused on providing individual grants than team grants here
6) Research in renewable and sustainable transport technology which is diversified (i.e. VESTAS in wind turbines, Siemens is solar, Distributed IT management technologies pioneered by French/Spaniard/Greek research institutes and companies
7) A highly successful IT and Computer Science sector focusing on open source, scientific computing and engineering software rather than web sites and e-buskets
People acutely more aware of environmental problems
9) An expanded market (actually much larger than the one here)
10) People much more involved in the political process than here (this is soooo sad btw)
11) An EU political process that focused on the peripheries and allowed and even enforced on the member states governments to redirect funds to cooperations between peripheries (think in terms of counties/districts from different states getting money from state - federal government to establish financial, scientific and small business solutions)
12) A focus on Small Medium Businesses (here it is all about the mega-corporations)
13) Proximity to the Mid East And Russia (and the pipelines either end up in current member states (i.e. Greece), future member states (Bulgaria) or states likely to join or form a trade agreement with the EU (Turkey)

So ... if one thinks (as I do) that the solution to PO is
people enforcing changes through a democratic process (yes party corruption is rampant there as well and they do cocaine in the Europarliament ) then we have a situation where:
- people more likely to come up with technical solutions even if temporary fixes are already forming trans-national groups and they can enforce stuff on their governments
- people more likely to demand political changes wanting to help themselves accustomed to working with people from other member states (even if stereotypes are still alive and kicking)
- distributed skills and needs in terms of food production, agriculture, among countries (thus making cooperation profitable)
- the citizens more likely to accept and even demand government intervention
- people generally suspicious of total de-regulation and free market idolization (well with the exception of the Britts)
The freeze to the "Constitution" will make political leaders listen ....
Interesting times indeed ....