Who's to blame?

by **smiley** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 21:27:14

- The EIA, IEA and the like for telling lies about our energy supply?
- Big Corp for pushing consumption?
- The government for not giving a damn?

- Or we?

When I look around me I see the people around me spending with careless abandon expecting eternal supply. Yet they could have known, they should have known that the party is going to end someday. They surely can't be that stupid.

I feel pretty angry when one of my relatives or friends is showing off their new SUV or their latest energy consuming gadget. I don't show it as I want to keep my friends but I'm angry. Angry because some restraint now would buy us more time to look for solutions.

Do I have the right to blame them for what is going to happen?

by **ShawnAvery** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 21:34:29

you can't blame one group or sector of society specifically, i think everyone is guilty to a small degree rather than one group perpetrating the whole problem.

if you want an idea to blame, blame the tendency for people everywhere to procrastinate and take the path of least resistance.

by **EnergySpin** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 21:47:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') feel pretty angry when one of my relatives or friends is showing off their new SUV or their latest energy consuming gadget. I don't show it as I want to keep my friends but I'm angry. Angry because some restraint now would buy us more time to look for solutions.

by **MonteQuest** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 21:48:53

Human nature for one. The other is the educated and informed leaders who chose to ignore the known ecological limits, the laws of thermodynamics, the error of capitalistic economics, and the law of diminishing returns. That tin foil hat crowd that everyone says has no influence. :roll:

Our cultural direction, world paradigm, asset inertia, and just plain ignorance of the world about us and it's limits, has lead us down a dark one-way alley where we are about to be mugged.

by **Ludi** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 22:21:51

It's almost impossible for people to see outside the paradigm in which they were raised. I don't think blame is helpful at all.

by **seldom_seen** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 22:54:29

Economists!

by **Vexed** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 23:10:11

Another question might be: Whom will the majority of our friends and family and colleagues blame when the sh*t truly and undeniably begins to hit the fan?

Are we really going to blame ourselves when the going gets rough?

by **RonMN** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 23:28:34

Can you blame them? ofcourse! Should you blame them? NO!

This is a tough one to see comming...even if you explain the basics, most people don't see how it could possibly make them use less air conditioning.

Be carefull, because at this point...you don't want them to "shoot the messanger".

i feel we're getting close here, and desperate people can blame ANYBODY for their woes.

Not to mention...what would "blame" get you?

by **I_Like_Plants** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 03:56:26

If you're able to type this into the Internet, YOU'RE to blame! I'm to blame, I'm typing this on a very nice computer and drinking a nice Belgian ale.

If you're not Dineh or !Kung or something you're to blame, ok?

by **Ardalla** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 04:57:27

If I wanted to single out any entity it would be the IEA. One of their objectives was to increase the development and availability of oil market information. If PO this decade is indeed a reality, then the IEA has failed utterly. Is there any other organization in human history whose failure to implement its stated objective has led to such severe consequences as now threaten. They cannot plead ignorance; data supporting PO exists and has existed for years. At the very least they should issue a statement saying that due to lack of reliable oil supply data from producing countries they are unable to assure the world that an adequate supply of oil exists to meet world demand in the coming years.

The AAPG should also weigh in on the issue, at least to the extent of making a statement similar to the above.

Suppose WHO saw a pandemic approaching and said nothing? Moreover, what if they said that no epidemic is in sight and concerns of one happening are misplaced? It's just inconceivable that that would happen.

It's unethical that the IEA and AAPG are taking the stance they are. If they would speak, people would listen.

by **Raxozanne** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 05:07:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Our cultural direction, world paradigm, asset inertia, and just plain ignorance of the world about us and it's limits, has lead us down a dark one-way alley where we are about to be mugged.

by **MonteQuest** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 05:19:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Our cultural direction, world paradigm, asset inertia, and just plain ignorance of the world about us and it's limits, has lead us down a dark one-way alley where we are about to be mugged.

by **Kent** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 20:28:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', 'A')nd you know what really annoys me is that if anyone dares to speak out against this wasteful, ineffecient, consumerist, unsustainable system they are labelled as nutcases.

by **Mishka** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 21:20:48

So we need someone to blame?

OK, lets blame the Babyboomers - that way when Soylent-green gets introduced we wont feel so bad. :-D

by **Hawkcreek** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 01:08:23

by **Sunspot** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 01:08:32

I agree with Montequest wholeheartedly, but I would add a combination of poor education and the pervading influence of religion. The biggest misunderstanding people have is the difference between belief and coming to conclusions based on evidence, aka science. It is constantly promoted that the most important thing is what people believe. Strong beliefs are considered to be a good thing. Politicians harp about it all the time. But I see belief as the enemy to reason. When there is a preponderance of objective evidence on one side of an issue, then that's the best side to be on. There is still a "Flat-Earth Society", despite rather overwhelming evidence that the earth is, indeed, round.
Unfortunately, critical thinking, which has to include the questioning of belief, CANNOT be taught in schools. Questioning belief quickly becomes questioning the existence of god, and we can't have that sort of thing! Science, which is responsible for providing us with the lives we're currently enjoying, is treated as just another belief system. And that's just the way the gov't wants people to be, it's the people the most steeped in belief who are the most likely to be the flag-waving patriots who won't question the things their gov't is doing.
So who is to blame?? I think failure is inevitable. We got to the top of the food chain through aggression, competition, and more than a little luck. I think it's just in the genes. There is no evidence of intelligent life in the universe. Anywhere...

by **Ardalla** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 04:23:22

Yes, I agree completely. I would ask from whence comes this pervading influence of religion? As far back as we have evidence of human existence there has been ritual, superstition and a belief in supernatural forces that has dogged our every effort to gain a rational understanding of the universe. I believe the best way to explain this is to attribute it to brain function. I think there is a part of the human brain that speaks to us of unseen forces at work ... diabolical/benevolent entities that influence our existence. Religion is just an agreed upon way of expressing the proclivities of this brain function.

With the advent of PO it is essential that we not see the world in these supernatural terms. PO is not the anger of God for our sinful nature. And in spite of what the fundamentalists would have us believe, God will not see to it that we have the cheap energy to accomplish His Will on the earth.

You would think we would refer to history and note the folly of trusting in the providence of God for anything. The belief that God has given us the earth to do with as we will is a major delusion and an obstacle to dealing effectively with the ramifications of PO.

by **Ludi** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 09:16:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ardalla', ' ')The belief that God has given us the earth to do with as we will is a major delusion and an obstacle to dealing effectively with the ramifications of PO.

by **Stark** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 12:14:43

I don't think you can blame the average person. They watch the news to find out what's going on in the world, and they learn about wars on the other side of the planet, and about the latest suicide bombing, and the OJ trial or the Lacey Peterson trial or the Terri Schiavo on life support debate, and they think these are the things they're supposed to be paying attention to.

If the government and media were telling them, "Peak oil is about to hit, there won't be enough gasoline, prices will go up exponentially, anyone who would buy an SUV today is a fool", they would pay attention. But they're not being told this.

by **WebHubbleTelescope** » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 01:49:28

Who's to blame?

I have about 100 candidates lined up:
http://mobjectivist.blogspot.com/2005/07/top-100.html

Read it and weep.

Who's to blame?

Who's to blame?

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