[M_B_S]

http://www.channelonline.tv/channelonli ... ?id=507940

Malcolm Ferey of the Citizens' Advice Bureau said: "It's not just old people, and the heating and eating is very real and it does happen to people when it gets cold. They say I cannot afford to do both, so which one do I do, and you eat before you heat sometimes."
****************************************************************************

We allways know.

Peak Oil Gas Coal Uranium = Peak Food

M_B_S

[Tanada]

We know a high protein diet keeps our body temperature up, all you need is 40 grams of protein every three hours and you will be warm in a house with the heat set to 55F. That is basically a large can of tuna three times a day, just about everyone can afford that. Yep it gets boring, but its better than freezing to death or starving.

[GHung]

Do what the Ingalls did in "Little House in the Big Woods". Bake potatoes and shove them down in your underwear. When the potatoes cool down, eat'em.

[vision-master]

Most of my heating is paid for off-season. Living in chilly Minnesota, the gas bill may run $60 Month during the winter as it's secondary heat for me now.

[ROCKMAN]

As bad as it may be for some this season I'm pretty sure much worse days are ahead. Might be 5 -10 years but eventually NG prices will increase significantly IMHO. And with increasing numbers of consumers and utilities switching to NG it will draw us to those days even faster. By the time of the NG price crash of '08 it was on the verge of selling for 300% more than the current prices. Even propane users are in for a hit eventually since those prices peaked back in '11. Their "good times" won't last either.

[Rod_Cloutier]

I support a family of 4 and I generally do all of the grocery shopping for food. I have noticed a trend of increasing food prices. Gradual at first, but their now starting to rise in price rapidly.

What I used to buy for $500.00 would last about a month, with the occasional romp in between the big monthly purchase out to get a few essentials; milk, juice, eggs, bread and lunch meat in between; maybe an extra $200.00 per month.

The price of gummie bears, a favorite snack food of mine, has increased from $5.00 a pound to $3.00 for 200 grams in one year. I won't pay $3.00 for 200 grams of gummie bears. The stables such as mentioned have only increased slightly in price, while fresh produce, and luxury items such as chocolate, and soft drinks have exploded in cost. $6.50 for a 12 can case of soft drinks. I'm not buying them anymore either.

I think this will be the trend to watch for, luxury, optional items becoming unaffordable, while grocery staples remain steady, (subsidized?) in price. I keep a 3 month supply of food in the house, mainly dinner items, canned, and frozen items; just in case. This was the first month ever that we had to draw down our food reserve because prices have recently risen so dramatically.

I will respond to the food price increase by budgeting more for food, however this will mean less for entertainment, travel, and other optional expenses. I expect that most rational people think similarly and will reduce optional expenses to maintain the household. This trend will be bad news for anyone working in the entertainment, travel, or in the supply of frivolous items.

[ROCKMAN]

Repent - Which is why I kept pushing the POD (peak oil dynamic) over the simplistic PO date emphasis. Yes...the POD is very inclusive. But so is life. As you've discovered in your grocery bill PO doesn't not exist in it's own limited universe. BTW: in an effort to aid your addiction...do-it-yourself gummy bears: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPRrcxet6g

[Rod_Cloutier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')BTW: in an effort to aid your addiction...do-it-yourself gummy bears:

[ROCKMAN]

Repent - Not being a perfectionist I would probably just go with a meatloaf pan lined with wax paper and cut it into stirs. Eating an image of a cute little bear just sounds so sick. LOL.

[GHung]

People will be smart to use this period of low NG prices to improve efficiency with boring stuff like more insulation, caulking, better windows, etc.. With more power plants switching to NG along with the transportation sector,, and with the other uses of gas; fertilizer, plastics, etc., having few substitutes, along with greater demand globally, I expect to see a price shock in the next few years. Everyone moving more to natural gas is generally a case of energy wack-a-mole, a sign of the times.

My long-term strategy has been to reduce the need for everything fossil fuel. Passive solar and solar hot water, along with a well insulated structure have allowed us to reduce our gas use (in our case propane) to the level where a significant price rise will be a negligible hit to our pocketbook. Our only uses now are the stove/oven and our clothes dryer. We have a clothes line as an alternative, and a seperate inductive cooktop we use during good solar output. Our heat is supplemented by a modest amount of wood. Our lifestyle means the necessity for very little driving.

The markets are all excited about currently lower motor fuels in the hope that this will result in more disposable income to be spent on holliday gifts, parties, travelling, etc.. Buy your family another R-30 of insulation instead, perhaps a heat pump with electric and gas backup, and/or a woodstove. Add bigger/better windows for the south side of your home. My calculation is that a penny saved is 1.3+ cents earned, over time, maybe far more.

[GHung]

Re.: Gummy bears- I read somewhere (trying to find the source) that gelatin, used to make gummy bears, is being substituted for guar gum to increase the viscosity of fracking fluid. There has been a shortage of guar gum (used in all sorts of foods like ice cream) due to increased demand by the fracking industry. Maybe your gummy bears have gone up due to fracking

[yellowcanoe]

With the first NG export facility projected to come into service at Sabine Pass in 4Q 2015 the days when Canadians and Americans are able to buy NG at substantially less than the world price are numbered.

[ROCKMAN]

yc - Yes...from your lips to Dog's ear.

Ghung - Definitely...PGB...Peak Gummy Bears. And did you know that India was THE producer of GG in the world?

[Vogelzang]

Its obviously Obummercare. You fools should have voted Republican. I have lots of money and have no problem affording anything I need or want. I did all this by being an ultraconservative capitalist. I enjoy seeing the lefties go bankrupt and die.

[Tanada]

I just had to fill the fuel tank at the old farmhouse I inherited to keep the pipes from freezing until we can sell it. About $890.00 to keep an empty house above freezing for 8 weeks, this is not a winning proposition. Forecasts are for a bitterly cold and windy winter this year, which drives use up even with the thermostat set low.

I shudder to think what the poorer folks depending on fuel oil are going to do, for them you can figure about $300.00 a month in heating costs and that is assuming a small house with good insulation. For whatever reason in Michigan the Natural Gas distribution network is very urban, if you live outside of a town it is less than 50% likely that you have access to Natural Gas so you can use Fuel Oil or Propane. If you are really rustic you can use a wood stove, but those require someone to be present to keep them stoked.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'W')e know a high protein diet keeps our body temperature up, all you need is 40 grams of protein every three hours and you will be warm in a house with the heat set to 55F. That is basically a large can of tuna three times a day, just about everyone can afford that. Yep it gets boring, but its better than freezing to death or starving.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('M_B_S', 'h')ttp://www.channelonline.tv/channelonline_jerseynews/displayarticle.asp?id=507940

Malcolm Ferey of the Citizens' Advice Bureau said: "It's not just old people, and the heating and eating is very real and it does happen to people when it gets cold. They say I cannot afford to do both, so which one do I do, and you eat before you heat sometimes."
****************************************************************************

We allways know.

Peak Oil Gas Coal Uranium = Peak Food

M_B_S

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Tanada. I don't understand. Why must a house be kept above freezing . . . I assume it's about preventing pipes from bursting?

Please excuse my ignorance but if that is indeed seen as being a problem surely they can be purged?

Cheers

[Pops]

I also think it might be wiser to winterize the plumbing, even a short term power outage would be a disaster if it's cold and no one's around.

I expected propane price to fall with the glut of nat gas and LTO but they haven't, they fluctuate between $2 & $2.50/gal, double what they were a few years ago.

[Tanada]

The house is lathe board and plaster all through the interior with part of the basement being dirt floor and the remainder concrete. Having seen what frost does to lathe board and plaster walls my fear is if I shut the heat all the way off the damage to the walls will make the house unsaleble. It was built by my great grandfather in 1911 and electrified in the 1920's with knob and tube wiring, most of which has been upgraded over the years. Plumbing was not installed until the 1950's and draining that would be no problem, it is almost all galavanized pipe so disconnect from the pump tank and open the taps floor by floor and it will drain. The house is balloon frame construction so the humidity from the dirt floor third of the basement rises up the interior walls between the frame spaces full basement, two full floors and attic above. We used to play when I was a kid dropping stuff down between the uprights where there was a loose board from our playroom on the second floor straight down into the basement. It made rewiring a breeze when the upstairs was rewired, but it doesn't allow much moisture isolation.