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Emergence of GTL as fuel source

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby vampyregirl » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 03:32:57

Gas to Liquid, also known as Syndiesel is a liquid fuel developed by Shell in the Amsterdam labs. It works in diesel engines and is cleaner burning than even ultra low sulfur diesel.
After successful trials in Europe and Asia it is now used to power civic transport in China and Thailand and may be about to set off a revolution in Europe.
The Pearl GTL plant in Quatar will produce 260k bpd of syndiesel for the European market. Chief Executive van der Veer described this mass production of Syndiesel as the opening of a new market.
Are we seeing the begining of a major new fuel source? Is the Pearl project just the begining? It is expected to be so. Van der Veer's motto is more upstream more profit downstream. Pearl, which will cost between 10 and 17 billion to construct should be up and running by next year. Then we shall see the emergence of a new eco friendly fuel
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby americandream » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 06:03:05

Till the gas runs out.
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby Gerben » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 09:03:13

I find it unlikely that GTL diesel, petrol and LPG will be a major transport fuel source. The huge investment in a factory to produce the fuels is only economic when natural gas is almost free. Especially since the Shell process is quite inefficient. Such natural gas only existed in remote areas until several years ago. It is now profitable to convert the natural gas to LNG. This gives natural gas a value no matter the source location on the globe. I expect the natural gas will be liquefied to LNG and used in vehicles as LNG or CNG rather than be converted to GTL fuels.
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby Bas » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 09:05:29

interesting, but yeah, gas will probably peak not long after oil, so it's not a real solution; we'd have to shift gas from other uses like heating to fuelling our cars. And ecofriendly? that's a bit of an overstatement, but I guess it's cleaner than petrol or diesel, yeah.
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby evilgenius » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 09:59:42

Its probably easier to get nat gas from 5 miles under the ocean than to get oil from 5 miles under the ocean.
When it comes down to it, the people will always shout, "Free Barabbas." They love Barabbas. He's one of them. He has the same dreams. He does what they wish they could do. That other guy is more removed, more inscrutable. He makes them think. "Crucify him."
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby lowem » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 12:25:09

I remember reading somewhere that the process of converting natural gas to LNG is only 60-70% efficient, the rest of the 30-40% of the effectively available energy is "lost" due to energy input into the compression and decompression processes.

Anyone has any comparable figures for the GTL process?
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby vampyregirl » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 15:13:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gerben', 'I') find it unlikely that GTL diesel, petrol and LPG will be a major transport fuel source. The huge investment in a factory to produce the fuels is only economic when natural gas is almost free. Especially since the Shell process is quite inefficient. Such natural gas only existed in remote areas until several years ago. It is now profitable to convert the natural gas to LNG. This gives natural gas a value no matter the source location on the globe. I expect the natural gas will be liquefied to LNG and used in vehicles as LNG or CNG rather than be converted to GTL fuels.


The Pearl Project is for GTL. Although i believe a LNG plant is being built in Quatar to
Last edited by vampyregirl on Sat 26 Jan 2008, 04:37:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby Concerned » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 15:31:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')ill the gas runs out.


Hehe and run out it will. The bacteria in the petri dish think they have discovered another food source but they don't know how close to midnight it is.

Let's keep growing (doubling) and see where this ends up? China 1.3 billion people growing in excess of 10% a year and India 1.4 billion growing at around 8%

Yeah we have GTL, CTL, solar, wind and blah blah blah....
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby LoneSnark » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 17:11:52

Hmm, your metaphore sucks. Food comes from sunlight, not oil. That we today use oil in the shipping/packaging of our food is a coincidence of history (we have oil). When we don't then we won't, so be it.
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby Concerned » Sat 26 Jan 2008, 04:35:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'H')mm, your metaphore sucks. Food comes from sunlight, not oil. That we today use oil in the shipping/packaging of our food is a coincidence of history (we have oil). When we don't then we won't, so be it.


Oil comes from sunlight too.

Suffice to say it's a little more complicated that what I could probably explain to someone like you.

Perhaps you should try Green Eggs and Ham might be something you could decipher, if you read it over a few times.
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby Concerned » Sat 26 Jan 2008, 04:35:15

duplicate post
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby vampyregirl » Sun 27 Jan 2008, 04:43:50

BTW the Pearl project is being financed by Shell alone with no partners. And it is a big investment. Apparently the boss has a lot of confidence in GTL as a future fuel.
Last edited by vampyregirl on Sun 27 Jan 2008, 05:17:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Emergence of GTL as fuel source

Unread postby skeptik » Sun 27 Jan 2008, 05:01:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', '
')
Let's keep growing (doubling) and see where this ends up? China 1.3 billion people growing in excess of 10% a year and India 1.4 billion growing at around 8%


You're way off... China through its 2 child policy has got its growth rate down to 0.6%. India is much higher at 1.6%

The population growth rate of the USA is HIGHER than China's at 0.894%. If illegal imigrants into the US who are not counted is taken into account, probably significantly more than that.

- Figures from the US Central Intelligence Agency factbook 2007 estimates.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... sting.html
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