[JohnFarson1973]

I'm not a big fan of unions but can admit that they've done some good things to advance workers' rights and things like that.

To me it seems that their time is past and they really don't do anything useful anymore.

When you think about it, cheap oil has really been their friend. It's allowed the economy to grow and there's been plenty of money to offer benefits and things like that, which union demand.

But what will the future bring for unions as economies slow down or collapse?

[NiKfUrY69]

No not unions.

Think guilds.

Later - NiK

[JohnFarson1973]

What's the difference?

[Windmills]

I think cheap oil has been the enemy of unions. It has taken away their best jobs and industries and given them to foreign countries via globalization. It has brought wealth and prosperity to the average person, reducing the need for a union to fight for...well, wealth and prosperity for its powerless members.

I believe unions will regain strength. The miserable conditions that gave rise to their power will come once again. People crushed into slavery will need a voice once again.

[Twilight]

Guilds are specific to a skill, and are as much about maintaining professional standards in their trade and raising its profile as they are about working conditions.

Unions are not. See "General Workers' Union".

There is quite a chasm between a forum for artisans and a macroeconomic sledgehammer.

Not that the latter has not been a force for good, but it becomes obsolete with the passing of industrial society. Any enterprise numbering tens of thousands of people ultimately is such.

[Fishman]

On the economic way down unions will do poor. Folks desparate for work will work for less, basic economics. After the "bottom" is reached whatever that may be, unions may fare better. Same happened after the bubonic plague in the 1300s, labor shortage, rise of guilds and organized labor of sorts.

[Blacksmith]

I belong to a professional organization and my friend belongs to a union. When it comes to safety in the work place the union is light years ahead, while the professional organization seems to be more interested in protecting the public from professionals. If I was to choose I would choose the union simply because of their concern for safety.

[NTBKtrader]

Why hire some old 50 year old American unionist when i can hire 3 mexicans for half the price? Unionism is dead, and the importation/job exportation i.e. cheap labor will reign because capitalism is the rule of law.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', 'I') think cheap oil has been the enemy of unions. It has taken away their best jobs and industries and given them to foreign countries via globalization. It has brought wealth and prosperity to the average person, reducing the need for a union to fight for...well, wealth and prosperity for its powerless members.

I believe unions will regain strength. The miserable conditions that gave rise to their power will come once again. People crushed into slavery will need a voice once again.

[Micki]

Once unemployment start taking off and people become aware of the bleak future, those with jobs will tend to get more protective of their positions.
This could lead to employees being more flexible, working harder, being more prductive or MORE LIKELY gang up in old fashioned unions that beat up (black foot) non-union members etc.
Unless authorities decide to come down hard on these, you may see strong mafia style unions forming that may resort to extreme violence to protect their own interest.

Alternatively, after the the unions have become powerful, you may of course see the workers sold out by corrupt strong union leaders who look after their own stomachs rather than their members.

[vision-master]

[NTBKtrader]

Again, why hire an American for $20 hr when I can hire a foreigner (or two) for $10 hr or less? Americans think too highly of themselves.

I have 100 million Americans that think they are worth $20 an hr vs 2 billion foreigners that will work for -$10 hr minus (does that count overtime?).

[Boris555]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NTBKtrader', 'A')gain, why hire an American for $20 hr when I can hire a foreigner (or two) for $10 hr or less? Americans think too highly of themselves.

I have 100 million Americans that think they are worth $20 an hr vs 2 billion foreigners that will work for -$10 hr minus (does that count overtime?).

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NTBKtrader', 'A')gain, why hire an American for $20 hr when I can hire a foreigner (or two) for $10 hr or less? Americans think too highly of themselves.

I have 100 million Americans that think they are worth $20 an hr vs 2 billion foreigners that will work for -$10 hr minus (does that count overtime?).