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Energy Outlook - decline and fall

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Energy Outlook - decline and fall

Unread postby erb » Tue 17 Apr 2007, 10:54:13

from this article

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... cleId=5380

may have been posted already?? awesome write up and very easy to read charts. also touches on coal and LNG


:"Evidence suggests that we are currently at the peak of oil production. World oil production is more and more constrained, unable to keep up with demand. And every possible disruption to the oil supply sends market prices upwards.

Colin J. Campbell's model of world oil production continues to point to late 2005 as the peak date for conventional oil. In his model, the continued growth of overall production is due largely to the increasing production of heavy oil (including tar sands and Venezuela's Athabascan reserves) deepwater and natural gas liquids. These sources are more expensive and will become increasingly so. And they peak by 2011 and then follow conventional oil into decline.7

The model of Walter Youngquist and Richard Duncan continues to suggest that 2007 will be the peak for oil production.8 Their model marks this date as the peak of all oil production. In this model, peak is determined by conventional oil, nonconventional sources only serve to help broaden the downward slope somewhat.":
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Re: Energy Outlook - decline and fall

Unread postby IanC » Tue 17 Apr 2007, 11:32:24

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall in the newsrooms of mainstream media outlets and hear the discussions which ultimately lead said outlets to NOT publish this information? Do they have corporate advertising cronies actually in the rooms with them nixing thoughtful analysis of Peak Oil, gas, uranium, coal, etc or do they just think that the news would be such a downer that they wouldn't sell many papers or get many eyeballs watching their shows?

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Re: Energy Outlook - decline and fall

Unread postby Newsseeker » Tue 17 Apr 2007, 12:18:49

The peak is here as Simmons has said. I think the decline will increase with each passing year past 2005. 2007 may be the first year of noticeable peak. Things will definitely speed up around 2010.
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Re: Energy Outlook - decline and fall

Unread postby erb » Tue 17 Apr 2007, 13:06:07

I think it will accellerate down the slope as more resources will be used to try and "solve" the crisis

have less oil use more coal have less coal use more uranium ect.ect.
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Re: Energy Outlook - decline and fall

Unread postby jbeckton » Tue 17 Apr 2007, 13:24:27

The article has a disclaimer that these views are only an opinion:

Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are the sole responsibility of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the Centre for Research on Globalization.

Try to check his references and you will find all the links are to sites where you have buy his books to see where he gets his information. Who uses their own work for all of their references?

You must read this article as if were written by a PO idealist that believes that only powerdown will save us; because thats what it is, not an unbaised study that came to that conclusion.

I personally think his 2025 peak coal claim is a joke and the only reference I can find is to another copy of his same article, kind of a sketchy reference to say the least.

Is Dale Allen Pfeiffer really Montequest?
Last edited by jbeckton on Tue 17 Apr 2007, 13:26:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Energy Outlook - decline and fall

Unread postby davep » Tue 17 Apr 2007, 13:25:11

I find this very hard to believe:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')Using photovoltaics, the US would require 17% of the planet's entire surface area, or 59% of the land surface to replace its current daily oil consumption. The entire world would require 40% of the entire planet's surface are, or 1.37 times the entire land area.5"



Their source is from one of their books, so I can't read the supporting argument.

Imagine you fully covered 100x100 km of the desert with photovoltaics and had 2000 sun hours of 1 kw per m2 per year. At 10 % efficiency that would make 2000000000000 kw/h (err, 2000000 Gw/h). What's the annual US energy consumption they should be comparing to?
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Re: Energy Outlook - decline and fall

Unread postby Minvaren » Tue 17 Apr 2007, 14:30:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'I') find this very hard to believe:


With good reason.

Traditional solar system : here.

Concentrator solar system : here.
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Re: Energy Outlook - decline and fall

Unread postby Newsseeker » Wed 18 Apr 2007, 09:26:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('erb', 'I') think it will accellerate down the slope as more resources will be used to try and "solve" the crisis

have less oil use more coal have less coal use more uranium ect.ect.


My feelings exactly. As we jump from peak to peak we eventually run out of peaks and then it is TEOTWAWKI!
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