[mmasters]

Peak oil is well enough known by the powers of the world that I think it's assured we will get a preemptive post peak collapse. I think this should be more considered in the possibilities of timing for when TSHTF. People seem to gravitate to the ideal downward slope of the bell curve for when things go south fast. However I think in this case we could very well could encounter a sheer cliff out of left field (due to more than just pressurized wells). When people high high up see oncoming production cliffs in the forecast I don't think they will just fasten their seatbelts and start preying. I'm more inclined to think that for a large part these cliffs will be engineered to happen sooner, such that the resulting domino effect can be controlled to some extent. As far as the gap from the engineered cliff to the actual cliff, it will be used as as some kind of secret stash or buffer to profit from.

[americandream]

If you can convince me:

1 That there is a sufficiently coherent global elite:

2 With enough cohesiveness/premeditation to act in concert;

3 And able to retain their privilege in a shut down scenario....

I may just believe you.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'P')eak oil is well enough known by the powers of the world that I think it's assured we will get a preemptive post peak collapse.

[paoniapbud]

Simply look at the Fed and U.S. Congress for your answer. These people ARE the organized elite. Congress is spending like no tomorrow and the Fed is tightening the money supply. A fine balance to prop up the dollar in the near-term. When the TSHTF we won't know what hit us.

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'I')f you can convince me:

1 That there is a sufficiently coherent global elite:

2 With enough cohesiveness/premeditation to act in concert;

3 And able to retain their privilege in a shut down scenario....

I may just believe you.

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'P')eak oil is well enough known by the powers of the world that I think it's assured we will get a preemptive post peak collapse.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'I')'m not so sure this will be about monetary profit if that's what you mean. Fiat money will be worthless. Also have to consider the government can seize most everything by laws or executive orders.

[RdSnt]

You really don't need that much coherence, it can be guided by personal conversations. Chats over drinks. A nudge here, a hint there.
The elite don't need to do much of anything but suggest and sycophants will fall over themselves to comply.

Consider Shakespeare; "Who will rid me of this troublesome..."


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'I')f you can convince me:

1 That there is a sufficiently coherent global elite:

2 With enough cohesiveness/premeditation to act in concert;

3 And able to retain their privilege in a shut down scenario....

I may just believe you.

[Ludi]

I don't think so. They can make more money, retain more power by just going on about their typical business (war, war, and more war) and pretending there is no looming systemic problem.

[gg3]

You don't need a conspiracy to get to the same endpoint. Only the similarity of self-interests on the part of individuals and known groups (e.g. the XYZ lobby). When a big enough herd moves in the same direction, it looks planned, but it is not. And it is every bit as dangerous as the same herd moving in response to a pre-arranged gameplan.

This particular big herd is about 1/10 of 1% of the population, but nevertheless, that makes for a herd of large enough size to do the trick and to seem scripted.

[grabby]

I don't think there is an elite per se, but I think the top dogs have a lot of clout and they communicate, but whatever makes no difference at all.

I don't believe they knew peak oil came that quickly.

and I don't believe they know the danger and ease of unleashing the dogs of war.

An when the hand of god comes over the north pole they will pee their pants just like the rest of us.

they left a bunch of idiots in charge of the nuclear button, and there is nothing they can do to stop it.

Now, since he real elite have homes in New York and Paris in million dollar penthouses, they won't know what hit them most of them, and the top dogs are going to be removed.

Unless they happen to be on vacation.

Now I am going to tell you something that will forever make you restless:
Did you know the MILITARY is in CHARGE of USING our nuclear weapons?

Our history and endpoint is in the total control of the MILITARY?

You ever THINK about that?

Now that is scary.


P.S. and Ethanol will not save us.

[evilgenius]

I tend to agree with Grabby about the 'hand of God' coming over the North Pole. I think that it is in the Russian plan to make a big play for power on the world stage. They probably feel it is their responsibility to provide a counter to the moves the US is making. The US will probably stymie them as they try to rise. That might anger the Russians enough to turn the key, especially if they see Dick Cheney standing there laughing at them as the remainder of the world's oil drips off his piggish brow.

Just a thought.

[MC2]

"Not with a bang, but a whimper"

That's been around awhile, and it's never been more true than for the Peak Oil Collapse scenario. People have strong survival instincts, and they will go to great lengths to adapt, if possible, to changing circumstances. Nonetheless, the cheap oil run-up of the past century means billions will probably be eliminated from the global population over the next 100 years. But I don't see this as being an overnight apocalypse, but, rather a prolonged down-sizing.

As for Russia, I think some of the worry is a hangover from the Cold War. I was surprised how much my initial impressions of Russia in this century were colored by assumptions from that era. (I've been working closely with former Soviets for about six years) Like us, their people are fairly separate from their government, and, perhaps, are best described as "victims" of it. They certainly never wanted war with us. And I think the Russian leadership, especially Putin, are far, far, from being global adventurists. What Russia will do is try to protect Russia; protect their own oil and gas reserves and not sell them cheaply to the rest of the world, protect their national security, and close ranks around the motherland. If they ever fire nuclear missiles in anger, it will probably be against the Chinese, not us.

[SchroedingersCat]

Broken WTO talks
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey almost certainly do not know it, but consumers in the United States, Europe and other rich nations will be among the big losers from this week's collapse of global free trade talks.

World Trade Organization (WTO) chief Pascal Lamy suspended the so-called Doha round indefinitely on Monday after major powers failed to overcome a stalemate over agricultural subsidies and tariffs.