PeakOil is You
The Big Picture
Re: The Big Picture
by Raxozanne » Tue 04 Apr 2006, 12:32:28
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'Y')ou are assuming here that the industrial world will disappear with peak oil. I disagree with that. Oil is tied to one specific type of industry.
And what one specific industry would that be?
Transportation?
Plastics?
Chemicals?
Fertilizers?
I wonder what happens when the prices of basic necessities rise undermining the average working households ability to afford the basics (transportation to work/heating/food etc.) and consequently causing loss of faith/credibility in the political system.... anyone?
I think the Kaiser Chiefs know....
I predict a riot!
I predict a riot!
- Raxozanne
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Re: The Big Picture
by jimk » Tue 04 Apr 2006, 13:34:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '
')You are assuming here that the industrial world will disappear with peak oil.
')You are assuming here that the industrial world will disappear with peak oil.
No, my main point is that progress is possible independent of the industrial world. By progress I mean movement into more preferable situations. The underlying point is that people's preferences are not hardwired, but are programmed. Of course basic nutrition etc. is hardwared, but 99% of the industrial world is about programmed preferences.
I am trying to cultivate the realization that profoundly fulfilling human living is possible outside of industrial culture.
I am convinced that industrial culture is unsustainable, almost by definition. Industrial progress means increasing consumption of resources. There are a couple ways one might imagine a sustainable industrial culture. One is by constantly discovering ever more clever ways to extract more and more resources from earth, and the other is by ramping up the interplanetary import/export game. I view both these as suicidally unrealistic visions.
So I do assume that people will eventually, one way or another, come to redefine the purpose of their lives as something other than industrial progress. Petroleum may or may not be the limiting factor that steers us off our current course. Could be global warming, or nuclear weapons proliferation, or lack of fresh water. Just how deep will we have to dig our hole before we realize we've trapped ourselves and have to find a way to climb out?
I don't tend to be optimistic, but that doesn't stop me from struggling to find ways to improve things.
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Re: The Big Picture
by lateStarter » Tue 04 Apr 2006, 15:09:35
jimk - I think I 'hear' and 'understand' what you are saying. Keep up the fight!. I believe that if we could just somehow redefine our measure of what it means to be successful and what constitutes 'happiness' we would all be better off. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening.
Perhaps when (and after) forced by situation to take another look at what constitutes 'happiness', things will begin to change. We can only hope..
Perhaps when (and after) forced by situation to take another look at what constitutes 'happiness', things will begin to change. We can only hope..
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Re: The Big Picture
by jimk » Tue 04 Apr 2006, 17:44:03
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', '
')I believe that if we could just somehow redefine our measure of what it means to be successful and what constitutes 'happiness' we would all be better off.
')I believe that if we could just somehow redefine our measure of what it means to be successful and what constitutes 'happiness' we would all be better off.
We can and we will. Just a question of how much pain and suffering along the way.
Kurosawa's movie Dreams is about this arc, from pre-industrial through to post-industrial. He's got some graphic pain and suffering in between!
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Re: The Big Picture
by kam30en » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 02:48:58
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')So I suggest you try galvanizing America to change its ways - the rest of the world could do very well at sorting out the global problems
if America were to just stop blocking the solutions.
')So I suggest you try galvanizing America to change its ways - the rest of the world could do very well at sorting out the global problems
if America were to just stop blocking the solutions.
Blah blah blah, it's all America's fault. BULLSHIT. Even without america, the world would've steered towards the same direction. The way humanity solves ecological problems is by dying en masse. I can't see India or China solving there problems, I have been there. The people all over the world are the same. They want a good life, and to get it, they are willing to kill any creature, destroy any ecosystem, they will sell there own children. All our current problems stem from this fact. People will do whatever to have a "good life", even if the end result is the planet's destruction. And it probably will be. But you can keep blaming America, if it wasn't Ameirca, it'd be Russia, or Germany, or China doing the exact same thing, at least America doesn't include genocide as it's foreign policy. Just imagine if Germany or Japan had won WW2, I'm sure they'd have a way to solve peok oil, KILL EVERYONE. America could be a hell of a lot worse.
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