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THE Poverty Thread (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: Is unrest spreading because of poverty & food inflation?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 29 Jan 2011, 03:05:40

Interesting to wonder how far this spiral will go!
I suspect that incremental improvement over decades has kept relative peace in much of the world. Now many overseas workers wages have been cut or they have lost work, remittances are down and people are starting to trickle home. Depression is setting in. I guess things could get crazy really soon?
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Re: Is unrest spreading because of poverty & food inflation?

Unread postby careinke » Sat 29 Jan 2011, 05:37:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')here's no current shortage of food (approx. 50% of food is wasted in the US) but there is great inequity in food pricing and distribution worldwide.

Social inequity leads to unstable societies.

The US is one of the most inequitable of the developed nations.

Could we see food riots in the US? Or are we so anesthetized by media that we just won't riot no matter how inequitable our society?

How will we react to Neo-feudalism?

:?:


I plan on being a feudal lord. :)
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poverty in america

Unread postby dsula » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 08:26:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Of course, poor Americans do not live in the lap of luxury. The poor clearly struggle to make ends meet, but they are generally struggling to pay for cable TV, air conditioning, and a car, as well as for food on the table. The average poor person is far from affluent, but his lifestyle is far from the images of stark deprivation purveyed equally by advocacy groups and the media.


http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/understanding-poverty-in-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about-americas-poor

We can't have that, can we, struggling to pay for cable. We need to tax the rich quickly to fix this.
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 09:54:00

Guess you don't know what it's like to be poor. Ask my sister, she was so poor, they had no heat in the house (winter in MN) except for a old wood stove in the basement. They kept the refrig outside in the winter bc it did not work......
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 10:34:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'G')uess you don't know what it's like to be poor. Ask my sister, she was so poor, they had no heat in the house (winter in MN) except for a old wood stove in the basement. They kept the refrig outside in the winter bc it did not work......


Within a decade maybe two most people will be living like that, at least those who are adaptive and can make the necessary adjustments.
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett

"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:01:59

Lot's of poor ppl don't even have internet access and no they can't run down to the local library bc it's a 20 mile round trip (no gas money).
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby basil_hayden » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:12:34

dsula -

I ca't wait for the advancing wave of poverty hits you.

I wonder, will you be man enough to come back here and admit it?
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby Pops » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:25:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'd')sula -

I ca't wait for the advancing wave of poverty hits you.

I wonder, will you be man enough to come back here and admit it?

That never happens to good, moral, hard working people.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby AdTheNad » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:34:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'd')sula -

I ca't wait for the advancing wave of poverty hits you.

I wonder, will you be man enough to come back here and admit it?

You mean insulting poor people doesn't make you immune to poverty in a world of declining resources and increasing wealth concentration?
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:53:46

Despite dsula's snarky response the article is a good one. The point being that though these people are defined as poor in America they live a rather good life when compared to the rest of the world, especially the third world.
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"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:08:16

But are they as happy as many third world ppl?
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:27:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'B')ut are they as happy as many third world ppl?


Probably not. When I was a kid we were poor but we didn't care because everybody in our neighborhood had just about the same living standard and we were all moving up; our neighborhood was clean and well groomed and loaded with lots of children and we had fun with what little we had. Living in a country with very high living standards and a window into that world undoubtedly fills our poor, even though they have a relatively good life, with envy which in turn breeds discontent and unhappiness. When I was young we didn't have television, so what was near at hand was life, was the world. No envy, no discontent; happiness.

This is just one more reason to kill your TV.
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby dsula » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:52:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'd')sula -

I ca't wait for the advancing wave of poverty hits you.

I wonder, will you be man enough to come back here and admit it?

According to the list I'm already poor. I don't have AC, don't own VCR, don't own DVD player, only own a small fuel efficient car, don't own game console, own only one very old TV, no cable, no satelite, no cell phone. I also need to chop my own firewood for heat, no assistance there either. And my living space is also considered 'poor'.

Wow, and for all this responsible life style what do I get? I pay taxes to pay somebody elses DVD. It's great to be poor, in america.
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 13:05:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'G')uess you don't know what it's like to be poor. Ask my sister, she was so poor, they had no heat in the house (winter in MN) except for a old wood stove in the basement. They kept the refrig outside in the winter bc it did not work......



So where were you when this happened ? You want me to help her since you choose not to?
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 13:14:55

i had no idea until many years later.
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 13:28:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'L')ot's of poor ppl don't even have internet access and no they can't run down to the local library bc it's a 20 mile round trip (no gas money).


But, they have cars, trucks, right? Poor, poor people. Don't even have internet access. My grandma never had water in her house, let alone gas, toilet or a telephone, I've never heard her complain this much. She never had a fridge also, btw. Never heard a complaint.
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby basil_hayden » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 13:38:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'd')sula -

I ca't wait for the advancing wave of poverty hits you.

I wonder, will you be man enough to come back here and admit it?

That never happens to good, moral, hard working people.


Tell that to the elderly whose annual property taxes today exceeded their entire mortgage decades ago.

While I agree in principle that taxes should not be used to pay for Johnny's Xbox connection, the simple fact is that it takes double the household income to maintain a relatively simple lifestyle equivalent to 20 years ago. There is a "front" of poverty moving up through the ranks of American society and when it catches up to you, it won't be good and there will be nothing you can do about it.

For the record, I've always had small cars and chopped firewood, so I'm poor too. But when putting food on the table becomes a problem, a line will have to be drawn.
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 13:50:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'L')ot's of poor ppl don't even have internet access and no they can't run down to the local library bc it's a 20 mile round trip (no gas money).


But, they have cars, trucks, right? Poor, poor people. Don't even have internet access. My grandma never had water in her house, let alone gas, toilet or a telephone, I've never heard her complain this much. She never had a fridge also, btw. Never heard a complaint.


BTY, my sister never compained, that's why I didn't know what was going on until years later.

It's like this........... Yesterday me and a bud went hiking about 30 min from the city. Once we get out of 'the city' everyone has these huge homes 4,000 + sq ft homes on 5 to 10 acres of land. This is normal, once back in town, those 2,000 sq ft homes look like cottages.
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Re: poverty in america

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 09 Nov 2011, 14:16:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'd')sula -

I ca't wait for the advancing wave of poverty hits you.

I wonder, will you be man enough to come back here and admit it?

That never happens to good, moral, hard working people.


Tell that to the elderly whose annual property taxes today exceeded their entire mortgage decades ago.


What is your point exactly? What taxes today got to do with mortgages decades ago? I know a guy who bought a townhouse in DC for $13K in 1955, it is worth over 1 million now ( the guy is still alive btw). What is your point? His taxes should be calculated as if it is 1955?
Those elderly you are talking about, as well as my guy ( still working at 97 or so, btw) needed their properties to commute to their jobs. Once they don't have those jobs, obviously they do not need that property.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 't')he simple fact is that it takes double the household income to maintain a relatively simple lifestyle equivalent to 20 years ago.


Ok, so which one you do not understand , "overpopulation" or "resource depletion" ? Yes, you have to work more for less. Otherwise your bacon will go to more deserving folks, Mexicans or the Chinese. Expect to work even more later, for a lot less bacon. Expect to have more risks , hazards and humiliation at your work, growing as fast as quality and quantity of that bacon goes down.
Eventually you won't have to commute, you will be doing hard labor 12 hours a day 6 days a week , and will be available for domestic service the rest of your 24/7. You will not speak unless spoken to; you will end every sentence with a " sir" . And there won't be any bacon for you.
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