[Cog]

Time for some austerity. We can't afford to extend the government teat to the mooch class anymore.

The Mooch class:

Government workers at all levels
Anyone collecting food stamps
Anyone collecting social security and/or medicare
Anyone I don't particular care for
Criminals
Anyone in the military
Military contractors

The way I see it, after we cut out the entitlements for the above people, we will have plenty of dough to keep in our own pockets.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')ime for some austerity. We can't afford to extend the government teat to the mooch class anymore.

The Mooch class:

Government workers at all levels
Anyone collecting food stamps
Anyone collecting social security and/or medicare
Anyone I don't particular care for
Criminals
Anyone in the military
Military contractors

The way I see it, after we cut out the entitlements for the above people, we will have plenty of dough to keep in our own pockets.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')ime for some austerity. We can't afford to extend the government teat to the mooch class anymore.

The Mooch class:

Government workers at all levels
Anyone collecting food stamps
Anyone collecting social security and/or medicare
Anyone I don't particular care for
Criminals
Anyone in the military
Military contractors

The way I see it, after we cut out the entitlements for the above people, we will have plenty of dough to keep in our own pockets.

[Pops]

Let's not forget slackers who take the homeowners interest deduction or whose income tax is deferred on an IRA, or write off use of a personal car or home office, and lets not forget those freeloaders who receive compensation in the form of employer provided health insurance but pay no tax on it's value and ...

[Cog]

I think you will find that my views are solidly Libertarian. I do not like government much and find that the larger it grows the more invasive it becomes in our lives. I don't mind a military force large enough to protect our country and I have found that the abusive cops tend to be small in number. You know you have reached government critical mass when you have enough government around to bust people for selling raw milk and fining people who want to grow some veggies. Not even to mention, the millions we have sent to jail for the "Crime" of wanting to smoke some weed.

But make no mistake about it. Large governments, even those that mean well, are destructive towards individual self-reliance and personal liberty. I don't want you to take care of me and I damn sure don't want to take care of you. Just leave me be to conduct my affairs with minimal interaction from the government and I will be quite happy.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'L')et's not forget slackers who take the homeowners interest deduction or whose income tax is deferred on an IRA, or write off use of a personal car or home office, and lets not forget those freeloaders who receive compensation in the form of employer provided health insurance but pay no tax on it's value and ...

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'L')et's not forget slackers who take the homeowners interest deduction or whose income tax is deferred on an IRA, or write off use of a personal car or home office, and lets not forget those freeloaders who receive compensation in the form of employer provided health insurance but pay no tax on it's value and ...

[Cog]

You are under the mistaken impression the fruits of my labors belong to someone else besides me. Thus, I dub thee Defender of the Mooch Class with Oak Leaf Cluster.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') think you will find that my views are solidly Libertarian. I do not like government much and find that the larger it grows the more invasive it becomes in our lives. I don't mind a military force large enough to protect our country and I have found that the abusive cops tend to be small in number. You know you have reached government critical mass when you have enough government around to bust people for selling raw milk and fining people who want to grow some veggies. Not even to mention, the millions we have sent to jail for the "Crime" of wanting to smoke some weed.

But make no mistake about it. Large governments, even those that mean well, are destructive towards individual self-reliance and personal liberty. I don't want you to take care of me and I damn sure don't want to take care of you. Just leave me be to conduct my affairs with minimal interaction from the government and I will be quite happy.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou are under the mistaken impression the fruits of my labors belong to someone else besides me. Thus, I dub thee Defender of the Mooch Class with Oak Leaf Cluster.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') think you will find that my views are solidly Libertarian. I do not like government much and find that the larger it grows the more invasive it becomes in our lives. I don't mind a military force large enough to protect our country and I have found that the abusive cops tend to be small in number. You know you have reached government critical mass when you have enough government around to bust people for selling raw milk and fining people who want to grow some veggies. Not even to mention, the millions we have sent to jail for the "Crime" of wanting to smoke some weed.

But make no mistake about it. Large governments, even those that mean well, are destructive towards individual self-reliance and personal liberty. I don't want you to take care of me and I damn sure don't want to take care of you. Just leave me be to conduct my affairs with minimal interaction from the government and I will be quite happy.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou are under the mistaken impression the fruits of my labors belong to someone else besides me. Thus, I dub thee Defender of the Mooch Class with Oak Leaf Cluster.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I')'m not trying to represent mainsteam interests. Most of the country have not a clue how dire the situation is with our fiscal problems and would deny that peak oil is a reality. Watching American Idol is about as much intellectual challenge as they can handle. I don't think not joining a group of idiots as they run toward the cliff makes me an extremist.

[Cog]

The world is not Finland. If you think they have a superior system, then you are wasting valuable time living here. Progressives just can't understand that Peak Oil ends this experiment in cradle to grave socialism. Think local not national and you will have a clue to where this is headed. We don't do our countrymen any favors by kicking the can down the road yet again.

Accept the pain of a smaller government now, in stages, and make the adjustments or get ready to lose all your social programs down the road in a economic crash. Hey if that is the solution you guys want, don't say you haven't been warned by the Libertarians of where this is headed.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')he world is not Finland. If you think they have a superior system, then you are wasting valuable time living here. Progressives just can't understand that Peak Oil ends this experiment in cradle to grave socialism. Think local not national and you will have a clue to where this is headed. We don't do our countrymen any favors by kicking the can down the road yet again.

[AgentR11]

Problem with this generally silly term "mooch" is that its meaningless, yet mean.

There is level of infrastructure and integration that the government is involved in; we use scribbles on paper that are worth nothing outside of the value assigned to it by government (directly or indirectly); to engage in any sort of commerce we move things by land or sea, and can do so as a result of government action on our behalf. So there's no avoiding, in a normal life, some things which are the product of government spending the wealth of its people on their behalf for their common use.

At the other end, are social contract things paid by the people to others who will not or can not work for their own, or produce enough value to feed themselves. I think we mostly all agree, that the 60 IQ fellow, with a gimpy leg and not great eyesight is less expensive to us all if we can find a way for him to avoid starvation, and live in some type of shelter operating within the normal economic system. If you force him to crime to avoid starvation, someone will get hurt, or die, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in recovery costs, as well as more hundreds of thousands in the process of punishing the guy, who likely doesn't even realize he's being punished.

Ok, so there are valid social contract expenditures of government. Where do we draw the line of valid expenditures? That's the question that has to be confronted, but that everyone is afraid to confront, because it involves saying "NO" to some people, and perhaps to people who have only heard "YES" up until now. There is no way to make those decisions not suck.

My personal take on the thing is for anyone able to work that is drawing government assistance, they need to be doing so in the form of a government work program, where in all cases, any paying civilian job, of any type, would be a drastic improvement in dollars vs effort calculation. I don't even care if its carrying half pound rocks back and forth on a football field. For an able bodied person, no labor = no money. Better if you get some social good out of the labor, of course. And that takes you to disability. YUCK! See how this gets out of control, and impossible to fix well? And what about the elderly, to old to safely walk back and forth on the football field? So we are where we are.

We are unwilling to say no, and we are unable to keep paying as we are. In the end, we've decided by default, to let mathematics say NO. As Ron Paul put it; you'll get your SS check, your Medicaid, your bond payment, but you'll be lucky to be able to afford a loaf of bread with it.

Sad thing is, math is a much more cruel answer, than if we took it upon ourselves to say "no" to those who can survive having someone say "no" to them.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'S')ad thing is, math is a much more cruel answer, than if we took it upon ourselves to say "no" to those who can survive having someone say "no" to them.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'P')roblem with this generally silly term "mooch" is that its meaningless, yet mean.

There is level of infrastructure and integration that the government is involved in; we use scribbles on paper that are worth nothing outside of the value assigned to it by government (directly or indirectly); to engage in any sort of commerce we move things by land or sea, and can do so as a result of government action on our behalf. So there's no avoiding, in a normal life, some things which are the product of government spending the wealth of its people on their behalf for their common use.

At the other end, are social contract things paid by the people to others who will not or can not work for their own, or produce enough value to feed themselves. I think we mostly all agree, that the 60 IQ fellow, with a gimpy leg and not great eyesight is less expensive to us all if we can find a way for him to avoid starvation, and live in some type of shelter operating within the normal economic system. If you force him to crime to avoid starvation, someone will get hurt, or die, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in recovery costs, as well as more hundreds of thousands in the process of punishing the guy, who likely doesn't even realize he's being punished.

Ok, so there are valid social contract expenditures of government. Where do we draw the line of valid expenditures? That's the question that has to be confronted, but that everyone is afraid to confront, because it involves saying "NO" to some people, and perhaps to people who have only heard "YES" up until now. There is no way to make those decisions not suck.

My personal take on the thing is for anyone able to work that is drawing government assistance, they need to be doing so in the form of a government work program, where in all cases, any paying civilian job, of any type, would be a drastic improvement in dollars vs effort calculation. I don't even care if its carrying half pound rocks back and forth on a football field. For an able bodied person, no labor = no money. Better if you get some social good out of the labor, of course. And that takes you to disability. YUCK! See how this gets out of control, and impossible to fix well? And what about the elderly, to old to safely walk back and forth on the football field? So we are where we are.

We are unwilling to say no, and we are unable to keep paying as we are. In the end, we've decided by default, to let mathematics say NO. As Ron Paul put it; you'll get your SS check, your Medicaid, your bond payment, but you'll be lucky to be able to afford a loaf of bread with it.

Sad thing is, math is a much more cruel answer, than if we took it upon ourselves to say "no" to those who can survive having someone say "no" to them.

[Pops]

Agent, in an age of Dittoheads you are the most reasonable conservative I know. Sorry I compared you to Brooks, who I now know is a Socialist by comparison but that fact make you even more like Brooks in my book.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')here do we draw the line of valid expenditures?

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'A')gent, in an age of Dittoheads you are the most reasonable conservative I know. Sorry I compared you to Brooks, who I now know is a Socialist by comparison but that fact make you even more like Brooks in my book.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')here do we draw the line of valid expenditures?